U-Boat badge opinions please

[Tom Yanacek]

Of the three badges that I posted, this example was probably made the latest in the production timeline. This badge is interesting because it is noticeably thinner than most other original f.o. U-boat Badges, and as a result, it is several grams lighter. The particular zinc alloy that was used for the production run could also account for some of the difference in weight from the norm, but it is mostly due to the thickness/thinness of the stock material that was fed into the die.
This example measures 48.89mm wide x 39.85mm high. The weight is 17.2 grams.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

This badge has a weak maker mark along the bottom of the letters. This was probably due to the thinner zinc stock being used for the production run. Since the base material was thinner, there would obviously be less compression of the material between the dies, resulting in a weak impression of the maker mark. Hope my thinking here makes sense.

[Jeff V]

I have to say in review of this piece again I don't have a good feeling these days as opposed to how I saw these pictures two years ago. Especially in regards to the horrible looking pin and catch. As Tom said the weird patina is strange as well.
best wishes,
jeff

[Tom Yanacek]

Thanks to all
Weight is 19.9g. Width I would say is 48mm and height 39mm. Cant find the calipers and used a ruler so not 100%.
Look forward to further opinion.
regards
andy

Hello Andy,

Not trying to be a pest here, but I hope you can locate your calipers and provide us with precise measurements for your badge. I think this is absolutely critical if you want to know for certain whether or not the badge is real. I say this because I am pretty certain that Friedrich Orth had only a single set of tooling for U-boat Badges. The originals should measure out fairly consistently. Of course, there will be variances amongst originals as the tolerances were not tight on medals and badges. But a badge made by the same maker, with the same tooling should measure out pretty close. A difference of 0.10 or 0.20mm may be acceptable, but a difference of 1mm is not. If your badge measures only 48mm x 39mm, I would be very concerned about it's authenticity. As John mentioned, a U-boat Badge by f.o. should measure close to 49mm x 40mm.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Here are a few things I have consistently noticed about original f.o. U-boat Badges when viewing the reverse. The yellow circled area shows that the eagle's head looks nothing like the head of an eagle when viewed from the reverse. The red circled area shows a small "step" in the forward deck of the U-boat (i.e.,the deck is not completely flat). Occasionally though, this step may be almost unnoticeable. The area within the blue ellipse should be flat like the rest of the reverse. It should not be slightly concave or sunken-in. (Could be the result of material shrinkage in the casting process.)

Best regards,
Tom

[andya]

Well I think you have convinced me it is bad. Many thanks indeed for all the input and time spent on this thread it is very much appreceiated as ever
regards
andy

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi Guys,

I just happened to notice this small detail today and found it quite interesting. The badge posted by Andy at the start of this thread has two raised lines on the wreath, just above the bow of the U-boat. The area is circled in red below. I never noticed a feature like this before on an original f.o. I wonder if this feature is common to many of the f.o. fakes?

Best regards,
Tom

[Martin W]

Tom,

many thanks for sharing your observations on the FO badges,
very interesting.

Regards,Martin.

[Tom Yanacek]

Well I think you have convinced me it is bad. Many thanks indeed for all the input and time spent on this thread it is very much appreceiated as ever
regards
andy

Hello Andy,

You are very welcome, but I am sorry that the badge you posted turned out to be a fake. Since this was an inherited piece, at least you are not out any cash. If you do get a chance, though, I would appreciate it if you can let me know the precise dimensions of that badge.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Tom,

many thanks for sharing your observations on the FO badges,
very interesting.

Regards,Martin.

Hello Martin,

Thanks for saying so. I always enjoy sharing information with fellow collectors. It's important that we work together if we hope to stay one step ahead of the unscrupulous characters that make the fakes. Unfortunately, they are ruining the hobby.

Best regards,
Tom