Estand Badge - Zinc or buntmetal - %?

[Stu W]

Hello to all,

This item is now on the Estand for sale. An issue has come up with regards to the base metal. Specifically zinc or buntmetal. Seller has put forward an interesting point of view that I for one would like to see clarification on as I could learn from the responses. Hopefully others can also.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=250015

Regards,
Stu

[Darrell]

Martin brings out some good points. However, I never said it wasn't a good price or nice badge. That has nothing to do with it.

A zinc badge is a zinc badge. You can call it any theoretical name you want.

Seem to remember a thread that went on for pages regarding Mint vs. non-mint. That's a matter of opinion.

Whether a badge is zinc or Tombak is cut and dry if you ask me.

I guess whoever buys it can call it whatever, that's their choice. It;s important they know what they are buying that's all

[Martin Harding]

On the Metal

Hello Darrell, a level headed response, but feel me stating the fact it was authentic is relevant (although I can appreciate the debate was regarding the metal and not the authenticity) perhaps my next point of view will also be contorversial but it is this, Potential collectors (buyers) it is up to them to judge what they are buying and perhaps they should be conversant with sufficent knowledge before a purchase. Although I agree with opinions it not been of the early issue Bronze type I really can not see that this Badge has the characteristics of Zinc (at least not the Zinc ones I have owned)
What might be relevant is having dealt in Antiques all of my life and been conversant with most metals wether they are a pure alloy or not is this for example Georgian copper items have a purer content than let's say copper wares from the Victorian period, hence in comparrison is it not possible that different alloy purity exists on Kriegsmarine badges ? appologies that I am not a great wordsmith and hope you can relate to what I am trying to express.
Regards Martin

[Darrell]

....... perhaps my next point of view will also be contorversial but it is this, Potential collectors (buyers) it is up to them to judge what they are buying and perhaps they should be conversant with sufficent knowledge before a purchase. ....Regards Martin

True, but sometimes (not in this case however), it maybe difficult to distinguish between a zinc or Tombak badge based on photo's alone. If the badge is sold as Tombak and it arrives and the buyer finds out it's zinc, it leads to many hard feelings and disputed claims and purchases. We've seen it before, and I would rather not see it again.

[Tiger 1]

Gentlemen...........Time out!

Here's some info that will be beneficial to the debate.

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NICKEL SILVER......... Also known as Alpacca or Neusilber is an alloy that is usually comprised of 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc. Some Nickel silver may contain up to 2% iron and lead for easier machining, striking or casting.

TOMBAK....................One of the red brasses sometimes called a bronze. 80-85% copper and 15-20% zinc. At times small amounts of arsenic is added to give a slight greyish tone to the metal and to help with the 'flow' of the metal while being worked. A higher copper content gives it the reddish tone that is noticably different from a yellow brass.

YELLOW BRASS........An alloy of copper and zinc. There are various types of yellow brasses. It depends solely on the varying percentages of the components. Yellow casting brass is in the range of 72% copper, 22% zinc, 4% lead, 2% tin and some small amounts arsenic and antimony to prevent zinc loss when super heating for melting and casting. Regular yellow brass is 65% copper and 35% zinc. A 'high' brass will will contain more zinc.

ALUMINUM.................For casting puroses such as die casting the composition is roughly 88-95%aluminum and the rest made up of copper, magneseum and silicon.

ARGENTINE METAL......A 'white metal' comprising 85.5 % tin and 14.5% antimony. Harder than Aluminum and takes a silvery shine and/or plating better.

ZINC ALLOY................95% zinc, 4% aluminum and the remaining 1% copper and on ocassion magneseum to help in die casting.

POT METAL.................A cheap alloy with a high lead content. Roughly 86% lead, 12% antimony and 2% tin for hardness.

This should give you a better understanding of some facts to argue with.

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Time out over.... Touch gloves and resume the debate. .


Tony

[Darrell]

Tony,


Definitions ...

But what is the badge made of?

[münster]

Zink to me

[Al P]

For the record Bronze contains NO zinc at all. Brass on the other hand does contain zinc, and it is the zinc that defines whether something is bronze or brass.

Al

And the badge in question IMHO is zinc.

[Jeff V]

It does not matter the exact % of what metal to a certain % of another metal. The collecting world views this badge as a zinc example.
jeff

[NOR_collector]

it's a zinker!!!

[Peppe864]

in my book it´s a zinker.......

And in the collectors society this model seems to be viewed as a zinc badge,IMHO.


(but it´s a nice piece for a nice price)

[Cyclosarin]

Hi guys - thanks for all this information - and perhaps I can pose a few questions from someone who is not as advanced and highly expertise as most people here.

Is a badge that is considered 'zinc' for any given reason worth less in the general eyes of the collector? I say general because I understand what one value thinks is excellent - another might consider common. But it seems to me that some badge metals are considered higher or more pursued then others? As long as a badge is not relic condition and crumbling - is there any specific reason to pursue a zinc badge over buntmetal or tombak or vice versa? Is the use of zinc a marker as far as time of creation during the war for the badge, ie zinc being used later on due to lack of metal? These are all questions I've been wondering and I'd really love to know why some people collect x or y metal badges over another. Sorry for all the questions..thanks
-Jen

[Don D.]

Given the choice between a tombak badge and a zink badge the tombak badge will usually be worth more. They are not suseptible to rot and hold their finishes well. The more zink in a badge the less the finish holds. Tombak badges are also usually early war pieces made before copper and brass became restricted metals for war use only. There are also aluminium badge too. Then again some badges only come in zink so you have no choice in the matter.

[MH184]

Metallurgy etc, !!! Gees guys, it's a typical zincer, the plate for the catch being the big giveaway and the erect hinge too.

[Tiger 1]

Tony,


Definitions ...

But what is the badge made of?

Psst, Hey Darrel,

If it's not brass or tombak it's either zinc or plastic. It's a very little known fact that plastic was favored by savy navy guys because it didn't corrode in the salt air. Just don't tell anyone as it's a closely held secret by those in the 'know'. If this info gets out the fakers will flood the market with them.

Tony