Deumer Catalog 1937-41 sub badge

[John R.]

reverse hymenn

[ekrogh]

Great Detective Work, But One Question...

John,

Fabulous job of detective work on this badge! Looking at the visual evidence, it certainly appears that you have hit the nail on the head with identifying this type as Deumer.

I don't understand one thing, however. The Deumer catalogue is a 1937 edition, but the U-Boat badge was not established until October 13, 1939 (according to Heinrich Doehle's book). The Deumer catalogue also depicts many other war badges which did not come into existence until after 1939. Am I missing something?

Thanks again for your research!

[John R.]

John,

Fabulous job of detective work on this badge! Looking at the visual evidence, it certainly appears that you have hit the nail on the head with identifying this type as Deumer.

I don't understand one thing, however. The Deumer catalogue is a 1937 edition, but the U-Boat badge was not established until October 13, 1939 (according to Heinrich Doehle's book). The Deumer catalogue also depicts many other war badges which did not come into existence until after 1939. Am I missing something?

Thanks again for your research!

You are correct, and I have no explanation for it. However, Kai Winkler states in his description of this fantastic book:

"VERKAUFSKATALOG des Ordensherstellers WILHELM DEUMER LÜDENSCHEID ca.aus dem Jahr 1941, mit Abbildung und Preisen von diversen Orden, Ehrenzeichen, Effekten, Koppelschlössern, Miniaturen, Spangen, Trageweisen, etc., insgesamt 50 Seiten, viele interessante Details wie z.B.Spanienkreuz lieferbar mit Schraubscheibe, seltene Schulterstückauflagen, anbei zwei Ergänzungsblätter, extrem seltener Katalog der auch nicht als Nachdruck existiert"

So I assume he knows something we don't and will accept that it came out in its final form in 1941. John

[John R.]

Very, very interesting find John. I agree that the drawing(picture) in the catalog matches this unknown design exceptionally well. This is very exciting for U-boat collectors. best wishes,
jeff

Well, to be honest, it was Jeff that brought this catalog to my attention. Thanks Jeff, but you spotted it.

John

[Jeff V]

Ok, to continue the line of thinking that says these badges were made by Duemer. Here are a couple of pics I found on the forum of Duemer made EK1 bars. Compare the hardware to that shown in John's images.
jeff

[Jeff V]

.

[Jeff V]

..

[John R.]

Amazing Jeff--turn those sideways and they are dead-on for the Deumer setup on the u-boat badges posted above. Good memory. This same idea applies to Juncker U-boats by the way and the setups on the Juncker EK1 spanges which we will discuss at a later date. John

[Martin W]

John,

the firms of Deumer and Hymmen were both in Ludenscheid i beleive.Maybe there was some relationship between the two firms which would account for the similarities in the design of the badges??


Martin.

[Hank C.]

You are correct, and I have no explanation for it. However, Kai Winkler states in his description of this fantastic book:

"VERKAUFSKATALOG des Ordensherstellers WILHELM DEUMER LÜDENSCHEID ca.aus dem Jahr 1941, mit Abbildung und Preisen von diversen Orden, Ehrenzeichen, Effekten, Koppelschlössern, Miniaturen, Spangen, Trageweisen, etc., insgesamt 50 Seiten, viele interessante Details wie z.B.Spanienkreuz lieferbar mit Schraubscheibe, seltene Schulterstückauflagen, anbei zwei Ergänzungsblätter, extrem seltener Katalog der auch nicht als Nachdruck existiert"

So I assume he knows something we don't and will accept that it came out in its final form in 1941. John

I was thinking the same thing when I started reading the thread. PERHAPS it's the 8th edition or some such? As war badges were added, the catalogue was updated in the requisite sections, but not totally re-written.

best
Hank

[Tim B.]

John,
the firms of Deumer and Hymmen were both in Ludenscheid i beleive.Maybe there was some relationship between the two firms which would account for the similarities in the design of the badges??
Martin.

Well, and there it is. Good information We knew it would be a Ludensheid manufacturer, just didn't know who for sure and now we know.

Oh, an old thread that applies:very rare u-boat badge - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
Tim

[Martin W]

Here is some information from a recent discussion on the GCA forum.I do hope that it is ok to post this but i think it is relevant to the thread.
One of the members recently visited Ludenscheid and made the following observations about the makers of awards.
"It seems that every maker in Lundensheid was kindred with another firm.A member from the family of Assmann married a member of the Deumer clan.Bruninghaus was a close friend with Linden and so on"
There were close family ties between the makers who worked shoulder to shoulder and the main goal was to protect Ludenscheid from the competition in the rest of Germany.
So if the makers shared family,so to speak,why not badge designs,hardware and dies,etc.
Just a thought,

Martin.

[Jeff V]

Very interesting Martin. It also makes perfect sense. Thanks!
jeff

[Martin W]

Jeff,
your welcome.The credit is due to the comments of others.I was merely passing on the information.

Regards,Martin.

[John R.]

Member Dietrich has provided this image of the drawing from the 1939-40 Deumer catalog. By the way, Dietrich's book about RKs is ready for order--from the MAX folks are reporting that it is a tremendous book. Do a search function and check it out if interested.

Again, late 1939 or early 1940 Deumer catalog: