Schwerin U-boat with diamonds opinion

[John R.]

I have this badge in hand. It looks like it might be made of silver, not sure yet. The diamonds have tested as real diamonds. It feels, without an accurate weight test quite yet, as heavier than tombak, but not beyond "feel" at this time.

The reverse of the pin is stamped "800".

However, I would like to open this up to the forum for opinions and observations.

John

[John R.]

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[Jeff V]

IMO this is an extremely well done fake. best wishes,
jeff

[John R.]

Pin in down position for comparison purposes.

[John R.]

To save a little time, next two images are of period Schwerin badges with pin down for comparison. John

[John R.]

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[Bob Hritz]

Hello Rob,

I have examined 3 examples, in private collections and one still in the veteran's family's possession.

None of them had any mark, on the pin. It was clear, on 2 of the examples, that they were made of silver, from wear of the fire gilt finish, on the edges and highest points. The other 2 were in such fine condition, all I could see was the fire gilding.

On all 4 examples, the pin was retained by a wire, through pin and hinge. There was not a rounded head, as found on the common naval badges.

2 of the examples had the smaller type diamond plaquettes and 2 had the larger plaquettes. Those with the larger diamond plaquettes were somewhat 'rougher' in finish than those with the smaller diamond plaquettes.

Another interesting thing I noticed was that the badges appeared to have been made with solid swastikas and only lightly sawed out, not open as much as the standard Schwerin U-Boat badge. The were filed out more than the posted example.

The example that is still in the vet's family hands was promised to me when the vet was still alive. However, family arguements over who gets what has stymied my acquisition of the badge.

Bob Hritz

[Mike Coleman]

I am sceptical of this badge

I don't claim to be an expert in such a high end award and do not own one but have examined 3 good ones and a lot of fakes over 40 years. I would offer the following observations of this badge compared to those in my photo file. Like Mr. Hritz I have also noted that the swastika isn't fully cut out but just notched on the end and one with almost a bell shape notch. None of the reverses had anything but a smooth surface, no pock marks. There was also no heat mark present around the hook or hinge area and the maker's mark letters were smaller. On the front ( and some of these differences I see may just be due to lighting) the details were very sharp. For example the prop was very sharply defined as was the deck gun mount and the flag more delicate on the original with a deeper furl than is apparent on the photos provided. Like Mr Hritz's observation the hinge seemed to always have a wire pin and on the ones I saw the barrel of the hinge had the slightest bevel to the ends. I can not tell from the pictures but what is the cut of the stones? As rare and valuable as these are and if you are considering a purchase it would be nice to get this piece into the hands of the "big boys" at the SOS or Max to get some reliable opinions. As much as I would love one of these this I think I would pass on without some very convincing evidence otherwise.
Mike Coleman

[John R.]

On all 4 examples, the pin was retained by a wire, through pin and hinge. There was not a rounded head, as found on the common naval badges.

Bob Hritz

Thank you Bob, great information provided. Could you explain the appearance of the retaining wire mentioned above. I think I understand what you are talking about, but would like to check.

John

[John R.]

As rare and valuable as these are and if you are considering a purchase it would be nice to get this piece into the hands of the "big boys" at the SOS or Max to get some reliable opinions.
Mike Coleman

Mike,

Thanks for the detailed observations. This badge does not belong to me, I am posting it for another collector who will in fact be taking it to SOS for others to evaluate as you have recommended.

John