Interesting High Seas Fleet Badge

[Tom Yanacek]

This HSF Badge looks to be a Förster & Barth, although the attachment hardware is not typical for this maker. The hinge and pin are steel, and the catch is brass.
Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Here is the reverse:

[Tom Yanacek]

This hinge could actually be a repair/replacement. It does look old though, so I'm thinking either a wartime repair, or an original attachment with just a sloppy solder weld.

[Tom Yanacek]

This '?'-type catch strikes me as being original to the badge, even though it is not what is normally seen on a badge by this maker.

[mrg]

Hi Tom unusual badge, have encountered these at a few fairs over here and I have to say I cannot make my mind up on them, some of the ones I have seen have coopered looking hinges and somewhat flimsy pins those I believe are fake. Regarding the one you show the more accepted type has the broad pin and barrel hinge. The catch looks more like an R.S. or an F.O type set up same for the hinge come to think about it. Is it yours? In all honesty I am a bit doubtfull looking at the reverse. All the best



Editied for spelling really should have gone to school more.

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello mrg,
Yes, this badge is mine. I just bought it at the MAX Show in Indianapolis. I believe that this badge is original, and I would be very surprised indeed to learn that it is a fake. Your opinion though, is always appreciated. Hopefully, others will offer their opinions as well. This could make for an interesting discussion.
Best regards,
Tom

[mrg]

[quote=tyanacek;1614062]Hello mrg,
This could make for an interesting discussion.
Best regards,
Tom

Hi Tom hope so , in all honesty I am rooting for you, not saying it is a fake just doubtfull. On looking at this again do you think it may have also had the catch replaced, looking at what seems to be the making of a square area around the catch. Someone who knows what they are doing could easily hide evidence of new solder and fixing. Hinge like you say looks a good possible replacement. If so it would stand a good chance with a replaced reverse set up. Metal I thought looked strange but that could be the pics as the front looks Acceptable. Will leave you to other opinions. All the best

[chris clark]

ok my views only. lacks quality and finess. right hand forecastle poor as are gun ports(pitted). blue tinge on solder means modern. lower hinge also stricking very new solder marks and deep in badge ? gilding a rough wash of gold . would expect again better guilding ?
the level marker on bottom pin just above solder i have seen before though on other badges, but not this one.
be good to be proved wrong but i have a few doughts here
an honest opinion given

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Chris,
Thank you for your opinion about this badge. I can assure you though, that there is no pitting to the front of this badge. This is not any kind of a crude casting. The detail is actually quite distinct. There are areas on the battleship that still have a glossy sheen to them, which I believe are the remains of a protective lacquer topcoat. If this badge is original, I believe the gold wash is original as well. It does not react or come off with lacquer thinner. I think the blue tinge you are referring to is from the artificial light of the camera flash. The guide line for the placement of the catch should be present on all High Seas Fleet Badges by this maker. They are usually partly covered up by the catch and catchplate typical of these badges. There should also be a guide line just below the hinge, but on my badge it is completely covered over with solder. I admit that I may be completely wrong about this badge, but I have a good feeling about it. I'm not worried if this proves to be a fake, because I know the seller and can always return it. Here are two more pictures of the badge with less artificial light. Maybe no better, but I think they give a better idea of what the badge looks like in hand.
Best regards, Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

reverse:

[Tom Yanacek]

Here is a picture of a Förster & Barth with the typical (and more accepted) hardware setup. Notice that the catch placement guide mark is partly visible. Notice also, that there is a guide mark directly below the hinge.
Best regards,
Tom
PS: This picture was originally posted by George Stimson. If you don't want me to use this image George, I will remove it.

[chris clark]

as i said an opinion only and the latest pics are better so sorry if i thought it was pitting. to me with the other example shown i would now lean towards a def pin replacement on what could be a over all good badge front. gilt looks better too in new pics

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Tom,

I would tend to think that your HSF is fine with original hardware. I like the fact that the hinge AND catch are different than what we are used to seeing. It could very well mean that it is a hardware progression. If the catch was the same, but the hinge different, I would think more of a replacement setup, but with both catch and hinge different, I like it. Also, the catch looks original to the badge, and neatly soldered.

Many CCC makers can be found with different hardware setup for the different time periods they were created, FLL & many of the unmarked ones for example.

Tom D.

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Tom,
Thank you for your opinion. I agree with you about the catch. In my opinion, it is without a doubt, original to the badge. As you say, very neatly done, and no evidence of a previous setup. I am also leaning to your opinion about the hinge. My initial thought was wartime replacement, but when you look at the hinge, you can still see gold finish on it. So this non-typical hinge was gold finished just like the typical F&B setup. Interesting? This is the main reason that leads me to believe that the hinge may be original to the badge, despite the over-abundance of solder.
Best regards,
Tom
PS: Missed you at the MAX

[emaroli]

Here are a few pics. note the guide marks.