Weird U-Boat, unknown maker?

[Frank Heukemes]

I am posting this for a friend for opinions, please.

[Frank Heukemes]

rev

[Frank Heukemes]

mark

[Frank Heukemes]

hinge

[Frank Heukemes]

catch

[mrg]

Hi Frank have to say this is a first for me. The award looks very much the Deumur. Reverse set up looks acceptable, as does the award itself. The mm though on a deumur style set up, I just dont know. On the negative side the colouration of the award (unless its the pics) looks a little similiar to some of the fakes doing the rounds at the moment. Cant think off hand of a maker ZM. Interesting will have to look at this one more closely, so nothing definate from me.

[mrg]

Hi Frank one more thought then i m off to bed . Does the hinge look as if it has been replaced? going off the pics there seems to be a slight line of silver looking solder, and around the hinge itself it looks a little reddish as if it has been chemically darkened. Well its for me, need all the beauty sleep i can get

[Graeme]

Hi Frank

Is the catch plate part of the badge or soldered to the badge? Also Is the catch soldered to the catch plate or some form of crimp. Difficult to tell from the pics.

Looks kind of strange catch set up to me, but you may have seen this before and is ok. So looking forward to possibly learning something new here.

regards
Graeme

[skip]

Difficult but gut feeling would have me walking away from this piece.

I see nothing that screams copy but like already mentioned the material looks off, especially in the close ups.
Does appear to be a die struck badge though as I think I can see shear marks on the inside of the wreath. Mark is weird.

Skip

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Well like Skip wrote nothing screams fake about this badge and I agree with mrg, on the Deumer design.

Even the maker mark could make sense 43 would have been J. Bauer. Just had a look at the LDO list on the WAF and Bauer was located in Zella Mehlisi, not a place I know in Germany but it would explaine the ZM mark, wouldn't it?

KR
Philippe

[skip]

Even the maker mark could make sense 43 would have been J. Bauer. Just had a look at the LDO list on the WAF and Bauer was located in Zella Mehlisi, not a place I know in Germany but it would explaine the ZM mark, wouldn't it?
Philippe

Now that is a very good point. Has me looking at this in a new light.

Still don´t like the look of the material though. Is that supposed to be zinc?

Skip

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Philippe,

Thanks for the comments.

I also had the ZM=Zella Mehlis thought, but wanted uninfluencend comments. The problem I would have with Zella Mehlis is: why would Bauer choose the prominently sized initials of his city over his own initials? A bit weird.

I cannot comment on the hinge/catch questions, since I also only have these pics and never held the badge. If this is a fake, it is well done, at least somewhat convincing from pics alone. It has to be mentioned that it came with a whole bunch of fakes, all of these other fakes were known and of the hi-end type. Maybe a new creation, keep it in mind.

[Philippe DB]

Dear Philippe,

Thanks for the comments.

I also had the ZM=Zella Mehlis thought, but wanted uninfluencend comments. The problem I would have with Zella Mehlis is: why would Bauer choose the prominently sized initials of his city over his own initials? A bit weird.

Dear Frank,

That indeed is weird and as far as I know unseen both on originals or fakes. On the other hand, if I was the faker and planned to add an additional mark next to 43, and I already found out who 43 was I simply would have marked it with a J and a B because that would make it even more convincing.

Anyway like you wrote the best thing is to keep this in mind and see what comes along in the future.

KR
Philippe

[mrg]

Hi guys very intersting had also considered 43 to be either date, or area. A question i would like to throw out is have we ever encountered a mm of this size or style on any other award before? Not to my knowledge, most mm size are in keeping with the size of the award. Secondly the 4 is not a normal encountered style 4? Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. To be honest i am sceptical of the type of material, for some reason always reminds me of weathered concrete in regards to the texture.Reddish hue around the hinge and the mm. Like skip has aready mentioned i too noticed the Shear marks but these i have noticed on a few so called fakes before most noticeably the BSW dipped wreath (which i have to say I am still undecided on) and the four rivit mm GAB (well made and an accepted fake) both of which i have had the pleasure of checking out lately. Not saying this is a fake but what we have to remember is cottage industries knock one or two strange awards out every now and again and drip feed them into the shows. All the best

[Philippe DB]

Secondly the 4 is not a normal encountered style 4? Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Hi Mrg,

Although not an exact match the fond used on the numbers for sure looks identical to the once used on original bauer awards.

KR
Philippe