Schwerin U-Boat Badge?

[John R.]

Hi John, thank you, I missed the pictures you posted...what were they of?

John

Wrong photos, so not helpful here.

[rhudspith]

Hi Philippe, John, Guys

Agree it is a very wierd badge but certainly has been messed with. Would have to have this one in hand to make a decision, very worn or cast? not sure. Any dimensions or weight available?

I would say that it definately looks BM to me. What you see "peeping through" I think is just left overs from a poor solder job which has tried to be cleaned, if you look closely you can see the abrasive / file marking.

Photo of pin set up from what I believe to be a zinc schwerin

[rhudspith]

close up of hinge

[rhudspith]

A well worn later BM Schwerin

[John T]

Hi Rob, Philippe, John and everyone:

Thank you for posting those pictures...I see your piece has a similar catch and it is an early example. That is very interesting. The eagles are definately different too though. My example weighs 24 grams and the best measurments I could get without digital calipers is 48.5 mm lengthwise and 39 mm high. Do these measurements seem okay or would they be too small for a real example?

Thanks, John

[rhudspith]

OK here we go, subject to having the badge in hand and from the information and photos given I am going to have to go against the flow and say I believe that this one could well be original.

The dimensions and weights compare perfectly to examples I have looked at. All of these whether tombak or zinc have measured on calipers 38.9/39.0 x 48.2/48.4mm

The weights for tombak badges fall into two catagories, some were made slightly thicker then others hence there are two distinct weight ranges, one at about 23.5g and the other at 25.5 - 26.3g. Out of about 10 badges I have had my hands on there was only one that fell in the middle which was 24.6g. Zincs weigh in at around 19.6g.

Now back to the badges posted, the initial one in question and the Donald Duck one. What threw me was that John said here was another one he saw recently, hence two the same means they have to be fake. However taking a closer look at the patina and wear I think this is actually the same badge not two different ones.

If you accept this then it is easier to accept that it is an original tombak example. The original pin set up may have been completely removed at some stage if the badge were mounted on a plaque for example, and later replace with an original set up from a zinc badge. The eagle I suspect may have also had some work done to it to try and make it more attractive!. I would have a close look at it around the area under the beak.

So in summary a well worn original tombak which has subsequently been reworked / modified.

What do you guys think?

[John R.]

dd badge

Rob,

Sorry for the confusion.

Also, looking at the file marks on the bottom, it does look like letters have been filed off, maybe the name of the owner, you can just make out a couple last letters at the right.

For me, I would take a pass on this one even if real, just too messed with, or, it was in such bad condition somebody tried to make it into something. If Rob is right, then this somebody knew what the setup was on a zinc SB badge, which is almost too hard to believe but there you have it.

Well, I do not think it can be proved to be bad, so in those cases, it should not be pronounced bad. It has to fall in the "very interesting" catagory.



John

[John T]

HI Rob...thank you very much for the information on the measurements. I guess for now it will have to go into the "maybe" box. Yeah, that was John playing around and adding a Donald Duck head to my picture making it look like two badges. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

Kindest Regards,

John

[John R.]

badge

Just to compare the maker's marks, I superimposed the badge in question over previously posted marks for tombac SB sub badges. John

[rhudspith]

Hi John,

I agree that if the badge is good then it is the early version tombak with the thin wire hook, the later ones as you show with the heavier silver square section hook having the much smaller lettering.

Unfortunately I am not able to get my hands on my badges to take some good close ups of the manufacturers stamp on the back but have attached the best photos I have at the moment. These seem to indicate two types of lettering on the early badges, one where the letters are more square in shape and one where the leters are more rounded, if you take a good look at the letter C then you can see what I mean.

What do you think?

[rhudspith]

Another.

[rhudspith]

faint mark but the more rounded version

[rhudspith]

final

[rhudspith]

"For me, I would take a pass on this one even if real, just too messed with, or, it was in such bad condition somebody tried to make it into something. If Rob is right, then this somebody knew what the setup was on a zinc SB badge, which is almost too hard to believe but there you have it."

Tend to agree with John here, would pass on this unless it was real cheap, also the pin set up I assume is pure coinicidence.

John, can you post a full front and back picture of the badge you dhow with the rounded letters

[John R.]

ob

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