S Boot abzeichen

[German_military]

Hello!
What do you think of this SchnellBoot Abzeichen?
Is it original, or a good fake?

I hope someone wants to help me.

Greetings,
Frank!

[German_military]

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[mmiller]

Hi Frank,

I'd say it's a fake. The hinge and catch are incorrect for a Schwerin. Here is a good badge to compare. Also, the lettering looks a bit too 'heavy'. And the top hook should have small 'crimp' marks.

Regards,
Mark

[Philippe DB]

I can only agree with Mark here.

Not only is the buntmetal hinge out of place on a zinc badge but these type of angled cut hinge blocks are an easy give away on more then one KM Fake.

KR
Philippe

[John R.]

e-boat fake

Yes it is a fake. Copy attached is exact to yours and from Rob's article on these badges. I do like to see a cut out flag with a cut out swaz on SB or a filled in swaz and a filled in flag. Guess it came both ways though with SB E-boat badges, that is, cut out swaz and a filled in flag. Most of the ones I see are consistent though, either both filled or both cut out.

Is that correct?

John

[skip]

Is******180;nt that one of the US "cave creek specials".

Skip

[John R.]

marks badge

Mark, Looking at your reverse, looks like yours is actually cut out, correct?

[Mike Kenny]

Is******180;nt that one of the US "cave creek specials".

Skip

Yep, certainly looks like it. Nothing else to say, except it would look OK hammered into the steering wheel of a boat as an interesting conversation piece.

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on cut-outs. I agree that it's much more common to see either both or neither cut-out, but there are examples where only one is cut out.

Regards
Mike K

[mmiller]

John,

The flag is not totally cut-out. I just checked it closely. Looking at the reverse, a seam is visable where the cut should have been made. So this badge is a 'halfer'. So much for the theory of either both cut or neither cut. Maybe a Friday afternoon badge!

Mark

[rhudspith]

I would say generally in most cases the rule would be both cut out or niether cut out.

If it is only one cut out it would be worth while for anyone not familiar with these badges to take a closer look at it or post it here on the forum.

However it does not surprise me that the odd original with only one cut out can be found. We all have bad days at work!

[mmiller]

Hi Rob,

It is actually difficult to find a real, I say real, 2nd Model S Boat these days, that is in decent shape. The copies of these badges have really improved. I still believe that these 2nd Models should show some wear and tear, with visible signs of zink showing through the thin gilt finish, on the wreath. I would have liked a 'full' cutout Model, but was just happy to find a real one that looked representative.

I have seen (somewhat) questionable (as in very minty) 2nd Models for sale at top end German and American Dealers, selling in excess of $1200. Can you believe that!


Mark

[rhudspith]

Hi Mark,

You are absolutely right about finding a good one of these with any kind of original finish left on the wreath. Most I see nowadays I believe have had the wreath refinished.

I agree that that these 2nd Models should show some wear and tear, with visible signs of zink showing through the thin gilt finish, on the wreath. A really tough badge to get in nice condition.

If you specialise in naval then in my opinion $1200 dollars for an original in top condition is probably not too bad if you ever see one that is. Would be interested in looking at some of the "minty" ones you have seen, can you point me in the right (or perhaps wrong!) direction.

[John R.]

minty

I think what we see is a lot of decent SB zinkers repainted to sell to those that do not know that the finish just did not work for some reason with this version.

Look at the AS badges, why do they sell for quite a bit more than the SB badges--only because they, or we think they did, kept their finish. The badge is the same the obverse, no real difference at all in an AS or SB 2nd. Not like the big varience in U-boat badges lets say. The reverse is different of course, but big deal as far as I am concerned, the AS sells more for only the finish. This is noticed by dealers I am sure.

So, if the AS will sell for more because of a little finish, why not repaint the SB and sell it for more? That is what I think we are seeing--is the dealer doing it, who knows, but it takes care not to screw it up so it means whoever is doing it, knows what and where the new paint needs to go and not to overdo it too much.

What I do not see a lot of is a very good condition SB 2nd without being repainted. I did see one sold by Kai W. a while back for 750 I think, not retouched at all, in good shape, but no gold finish at all, just an excellent condition badge. So I think that price was about right for that one particular badge. Mark, I think your badge is as good as it gets in the finish department.

So, I have not seen minty passable fakes either, like to see one myself, they all seem to have that block like mm that started this post so if others are out there, lets get them into the files.

Dealer repainting of these SB E-boat badges really is irritating, but it is also hard to tell exactly without having it in your hands. We just know that it is unusual to have a nice/decent gold finish to one of these badges even if it is real, so our caution must be raised.

John