U-Bootsfrontspange questions

[Seagullmc]

A question has been bothering me regarding the U-Bootsfrontspange. I have a bronze (that this group helped me with) and I am working up steam for silver. From what I understand, all are zinc and I assume that the grade is determined only by the color of the surface of the clasp. Is it not conceivable that someone could change the grade from bronze to silver simply by re-coloring the badge?
From what I can see the market for a nice silver grade is about $1,000. Does that sound about right?
Thanks for any help and best regards,
Colin McMillan

[mmiller]

Hi Colin,

You and I both want a Silver Clasp. I want the one Gordon W. has on his site....the First Pattern. DRRRROOOOOOOOOOOL.

I guess it depends on where you live and who you're buying from, and on how much silver is remaining on the badge, but I'd expect to pay $1200+ for a decent badge. Of course, I will always pay a little more for a 'looker'.

Good luck & I hope you post it when you get it!

Mark

[George Stimson]

Here's a silver U-Boot Clasp that I just got:


I paid just over a Grand for it.

George

[mmiller]

Hi George,

Looks like the one from Herr Winkler's site.

MM

[Gordon Williamson]

Its not too easy to fake up a silver by replating a bronze. I suppose its possible but most originals have finishes now that show definite wear, but even then retain traces of the original matt white finish.Most also have traces of the zinc showing through on highlights. If you take an original 50+ year old bronze clasp, it will have some signs of wear, rubbing etc, then silver plate it, it will be a bit obvious as you will have a perfect smooth plated finish over clear wear and rubbing to the details. The cup to the acorns for instance should show fine cross hatching which will probably be somewhat concealed by re-plating.

You can still see this white finish on George's example.

I'd say the majority of originals now are showing signs of micro bubbling as the zinc base metal reacts with the plate. I would be very wary of any which were shiny finish and yet showed no trace of wear to the plate or bubbling. I have seen a few minty ones and all had most of the white finish left. Even the better fakes lack the white finish which will still be present in the recesses of most originals even when heavily worn.

Gordon

[George Stimson]

Mark,

It is.

George

[Seagullmc]

Thanks for the feedback. Gordon, I appreciate your logic on the state of wear and bubbling etc to indicate an old finish. I didn't realize that the original color was, in fact, matte white. I just assumed it was metallic silver that oxidized over time.
Your photos are now in my collection George!
Cheers,
Colin

[Chris Boonzaier]

I am not a navy guy at all, so once again, as so often in the past, I may be putting my foot in my mouth, but on the badge shown above, between the eagle and the sub on the left side, there looks to be a rim left along the full inside of the wreath ? Is this normal, or just a bad scan ?
All th ebest
Chris

[George Stimson]

Hi Chris,

No, not a bad scan. There is a rim on the left inside of the wreath below the eagle. It must be a characteristic of some U-boot Spangen. You can see the same rim on the silver example on page 607 of Detlev Niemann's Bewertungs-Katalog and on the bronze badge on page 125 of Klietmann's Auszeichnungen des Deutschen Reiches.

George

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,
I stand corrected then, I had a couple of bronze ones about 4-5 years ago and did not pay that much attention.

[Gordon Williamson]

Chris,

I have six originals sitting in front of me right now.
Three Bronze Second pattern, no rim, one Bronze First Pattern with rim, one First Pattern no rim, one Second Pattern Silver with rim.

I think it just depended on how accurately they were placed on the base of the shearing tool which voided out the centre.

Gordon

[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Gordon Williamson ]

[George Stimson]

For the record, my bronze (second pattern) U-Boots Frontspange does not have the rim.


George

[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: George Stimson ]