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**Gordon Williamson** · 10-19-2002, 09:29 AM

\Looks like the hook may have been replaced. The FO hook is just soldered to the back of the badge, not on a base disc or anything like that, but usually comes vertically off the badge for a few millimetres before cirving, so it looks a bit like a question mark "?".
Check the hinge, which on the horizontal pin FO badges sits in a recess the same shape as the base of the hinge. FO badges are faked quite accurately, but this may be a simple case of the hook being repaired.

**Frank Heukemes** · 10-20-2002, 05:21 AM

Dear Christian,

What you have there is a nice "fo" that Detlev Niemann offered some time ago, you probably bought it there.

As Gordon says, these are faked but still distinguishable. I also have not seen a fake with a horizontal needle yet, just with vertikal ones. Like this FAKE here:

Attached Files

uboot1.jpg (30.4 KB, 438 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 10-20-2002, 05:26 AM

obverse of fo marked FAKE. On this baby the eagle´s head turned into a blob but watch out, there are better formed heads existing as well:

Attached Files

uboot2.jpg (45.3 KB, 435 views)

**macca** · 10-31-2002, 09:42 PM

FO uboat badge

Hello collectors.Would it be fair to say that f.o. badges with the segmented swaz has the recess at the hinge and the solid swaz badge dous not have one.All the pics i have seen has shown this to be true but i could be very wrong.Your opinions please.Macca

**Gordon Williamson** · 11-01-2002, 01:27 AM

My horizontal pin solid swastika FO has the recess for the hinge block.

**rhudspith** · 11-01-2002, 04:03 AM

FO Segmented Swatika

IMO all fo U-boat badges were produced with a solid swastika. The odd one can be found where the swastika is segmented. I believe this was done by hand possibly by the recipient or a particular retailer with a fine jewlers type saw or file. I suppose it could have have done at the factory at an extra cost, who knows.

What can be seen is the method of which this is done in that to access the top right segment of the swastika a fine cut is made between the foot of the eagle and the swastika itself.

Rob.

**Lorenzo Brown** · 11-01-2002, 08:42 AM

Click the link for a scan of my FO U-Boat with the cut-out swaztica. Note the hinge and catch.
http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/files/subfo.JPG

The cut-out swaztika was done by the maker's die...not done by hand or by a jeweler. See the scans below and you can see that the cut-outs were cast by design. The internal recesses are clean and sharply done, and there are sheer marks and the original gold gilt. The one's that are cut-out by hand are extremely crude and there is no original gilt in the recesses of the cut-out portion of the swaz.

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swaz3..jpg (52.8 KB, 337 views)

**Lorenzo Brown** · 11-01-2002, 08:44 AM

swaz2

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swaz2.jpg (65.3 KB, 336 views)

**Lorenzo Brown** · 11-01-2002, 08:49 AM

swaz4

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swaz4.jpg (74.1 KB, 326 views)

**rhudspith** · 11-01-2002, 03:16 PM

Hi lorenzo,

Interesting, I see your point. There must have been a modification to the dies at some stage. I still believe that the top segment of the swastika is cut out by hand though, now almost certainly by the manufacturer based on your observations. Perhaps:

1) The earlier badge was the segmented type and they changed to the solid swastika to reduce the amount of hand finishing needed.

or

2) The earlier badge was the solid swastika as you would have thought that the original design of the badge would have been as such to not have needed the hand finishing like the GWL or Schwerin type

I am tempted by the first explanation based on the low numbers of the segmented badges you see and the need to simplify the production method.

What do you think

Regards
Rob.

**macca** · 11-01-2002, 07:32 PM

uboat badge fo solid swaz

Hi gorden looking closer at the badge after cleaning it under a x20 magnification glass mine dous have the recess for the hinge assy.My badge wieghs 17.2303 grams zinc.I would like to compare the wieght of yours if you dont mind just to put my mind at rest.Macca

**Gordon Williamson** · 11-02-2002, 03:42 AM

Mine is 20.8gr. I have to say however that I have never placed much faith in weight as any sort of indicator of originality. Weights vary far too much. Die characteristics are the main thing for me, then dimensions, though any hand finishing can alter these too.

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