HJ Summer Cap

[Rob W.]

In honor of the new forum, I thought I would post some pics of a cap I picked up a few weeks ago.

[Rob W.]

A few more pics

[Joe B]

Very nice and original summermutze .
Are those police event day badges ?

[Rob W.]

Thanks Joe. I don’t know much about tinnies and if the original owner of the cap would have worn them or the vet who brought it back used the cap as a place to store the pins.
My understanding is the one on the left is police support and dated 1942. The one on the right is called a Heroic Emblem for support of Wehrmacht Day in 1941/1942.

[wilhelm Saris]

Thanks Joe. I don’t know much about tinnies and if the original owner of the cap would have worn them or the vet who brought it back used the cap as a place to store the pins.
My understanding is the one on the left is police support and dated 1942. The one on the right is called a Heroic Emblem for support of Wehrmacht Day in 1941/1942.

badges like that were never allowed to be worn at this type of cap, nor with the visored cap. Just the Edelweiss, no others!

[Rob W.]

Ok, thank you for that. I’ll probably remove them and sell them to recoup part of my cost of the cap.

[Cracked]

badges like that were never allowed to be worn at this type of cap, nor with the visored cap. Just the Edelweiss, no others!

This is an example of quality. If Wilhelm Saris says those badges don't belong there I would definitely take those badges off and not "probably" take them off. Ain't no HJ collector buying no cap like that

[Rob W.]

Haha! Ok, you guys can relax now - I’m not selling the cap but the pins have been removed!

[Cracked]

Nice to see a sense of humour. Thanks Rob and without the extraneous badges a very nice cap

[rbminis]

This is an example of quality. If Wilhelm Saris says those badges don't belong there I would definitely take those badges off and not "probably" take them off. Ain't no HJ collector buying no cap like that

Keep in mind, there is likely no one that has more knowledge of the regulations of the time but, not everyone followed the regulations 100% of the time.
Perhaps other family members were in the Polizie or Heer and these were worn in honor.
You might find this thread interesting.
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/period...e-worn-146333/
Ralph.

[Cracked]

Keep in mind, there is likely no one that has more knowledge of the regulations of the time but, not everyone followed the regulations 100% of the time.
Perhaps other family members were in the Polizie or Heer and these were worn in honor.
You might find this thread interesting.
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/period...e-worn-146333/
Ralph.

Hello Ralph. I'm not a club member on that forum and can't see the thread so I'm gonna have to stick to the cap sorry. So, I've seen period photos of girls wearing HJ uniform for a laugh. If a collector puts a HJ uniform on a female manneqin today then based on photos like that he would be correct and quite obviously hugely incorrect at the same time. Know what I mean? That's how I see the cap. Safer to go what those kids and young adults were told back then was correct imo because with respect, your argument could be used to explain anything we see today, even if it is an actual fantasy item or configuration. Also, without Wilhelm and others we wouldn't have a damned clue what was right in the first place and I know you of course understand that. Research good, guessing bad

[rbminis]

Hello Ralph. I'm not a club member on that forum and can't see the thread so I'm gonna have to stick to the cap sorry. So, I've seen period photos of girls wearing HJ uniform for a laugh. If a collector puts a HJ uniform on a female manneqin today then based on photos like that he would be correct and quite obviously hugely incorrect at the same time. Know what I mean? That's how I see the cap. Safer to go what those kids and young adults were told back then was correct imo because with respect, your argument could be used to explain anything we see today, even if it is an actual fantasy item or configuration. Also, without Wilhelm and others we wouldn't have a damned clue what was right in the first place and I know you of course understand that. Research good, guessing bad

Okay, how about a couple of original war time photos of my father, will that convince you that not everyone followed regulations 100% of the time?
Check out the hat insignia, no guessing.
Ralph.

[Cracked]

Not really (although I already know that to be the case...). I see the HJ soft cap being worn in that configuration in an incorrect context but I don't see a HJ summer cap with police badges. You see? You have photographic proof for something that is obviously wrong and so does the guy with the female manneqin dressed in a HJ uniform. This doesn't however mean that every single thing we see on a dealer site or forum is to be accepted and it certainly doesn't mean that you can simply ignore every regulation produced during the TR in favour of guessing. You would need a photo of every single bit of uniform madness between 1933 and 1945 to be right. I'm standing by my opinion

[rbminis]

This doesn't however mean that every single thing we see on a dealer site or forum is to be accepted and it certainly doesn't mean that you can simply ignore every regulation produced during the TR in favour of guessing.

No it doesn't, but it does prove that not everyone followed all of the regulations all of the time.
Ralph.

[Cracked]

Yes, you're correct. Regulations were not always followed but.... everything can be real, regardless of how ludicrous and plentiful, if only people would accept that rules were not always followed? Do you not see the danger in that for collectors and the attendant advantages for purveyors of militaria?

You know there were rules and regulations - masses of them but you are choosing to accept, in this case, that a HJ summer cap with a couple of police badges has survived in that unlikely configuration until 2020 since that boy took it off his head because a hypothetical he wanted to honour his hypothetical father who may, hypothetically, have been a policeman? That's not how I collect let me tell you that :-)

The cap is good. The badges probably too, not my area but that's it. No story, no guessing needed - unless you can back your claim up. I don't mean that nastily. I just think that things are not always positive by association or because one might have a personal connection.