IAB in bronze makers ID

[chrisje110]

Hello guys,

Recently picked up this nice bronze IAB (with the retail box) with three others (all with cloud boxes)

Can anyone help me ID of the maker of this one ?

Thanks alot !

Chris

[chrisje110]

Others,

[ryuuk]

R.Karneth.

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi Chris,

Very nice IABs and boxes. The bronze IAB is almost certainly the work of a firm situated in Gablonz a.d. Neiße. Rudolf Karneth & Söhne is indeed a possibility but it could also be R. Kreisel. It could even be from another manufacturer associated with A.G. Metall und Kunststoff (the metal and plastic work cooperative) in Gablonz.

Best regards,
Tom

[chrisje110]

Thanks Ryuuk, and Tom ! I was thinking it could be RK.

Last thing I read about the RK discussion was that Rudolf Karneth was a major producer, and that R.Kreisel was smaller scale producer. That would rule out Kreisel as the producer I would think ? RK produced massive numbers of badges..

[Bruce Simcox]

Hi Chrisie

......Here is a bit more information originaly posted by Norm F.

In the the KM badge world, there are "R.K." U-Boat and Minesweeper badges (and in other spheres there are also other R.K. marked products like the PAB, numbered GAB and RO/AG, not to mention metal breast and cap eagles, etc.), all showing typical features of Gablonz production.

For some time, collectors have jumped to the conclusion that the mysterious "R.K." was mostly likely the initials of "Rudolf A. Karneth & Sohn" whose Gablonz Metallwarenfabrik was assigned the Präsidialkanzlei Lieferant number 61. However, in more recent years the competing theory arose of "R.K" perhaps representing Robert Kreisel, another known Gablonz manufacturer with the same initials who was assigned the PK number 67.

But furthermore, given that there are no less than 9 sets of tooling for the R.K. Minesweeper badge, one also cannot rule out the possibility that the "R.K" mark appeared on products produced by a consortium, similar to the situation with "A.G.M.u.K." marked products.

Pavel Strej, who has done the most Gablonz-based research, has noted:

:
Originally Posted by pavels_2005
I studied all the Karneth company documents that I have available, .... The documents don't show many war records. The records start mainly after the war when the Karneth factory was confiscated by the Czech state. But what I can definitely see there is, that Karneth supplied to AGMuk, to Heeresgruppe Mitte Liberec ( Reichenberg) and to Rüstungsinspektion Liberec (Reichenberg). He worked also a lot with Julius Pietsch (Gablonz) but this is not strange as they were neighbours - their factories were next door.

There is also a record that R. Kreisel was customer of Karneth. But this is no big surprise usually the Supplier/Customer lists of Gablonz companies show many other Gablonz names, as the cooperation between Gablonz companies was very common also in the in the times before war.

So that's where we stand today. There is no proof yet for the RK attribution to any one maker (as duly noted in the KM reference books in the context of the "RK" U-boat and Minesweeper badges), and it's even possible that RK-marked products were produced by a number of subcontracted firms.

[Thomas Durante]

R.Karneth.

I can only agree, a nice original Rudolf Karneth.

Beauty, nice finish left on this one.

Tom

[chrisje110]

Thanks Tom, and Bruce thanks for your interesting post !

[Stepdale]

That type of box is often found with Gablonz produced badges. The other ones you have that look like gray marble are, I believe, often found with BSW marked IABs. There are exceptions, but this has been my observation through the years.
Dale

[chrisje110]

Hello Dale,

Your pretty much spot on, the other three boxes are of the cloud pattern type, and contain a BSW, a AS triangle and a FSZ (all silver variants)