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    #16
    Originally posted by Gary B View Post

    So it will, in the end, be what one is comfortable with. Shortly after buying this I was offered twice what I paid for it (which was a significant amount for a GAB), so there are others who believe and I think that will be the preponderance of opinion in the collecting community.

    Gary B
    I have to opine that even if a hundred collectors decide amongst themselves that a preponderance of opinion is enough to form a basis for determining authenticity it would be a mistake to think so.

    As you say, new evidence has emerged in recent years to settle the authenticity of some previously disputed items of Third Reich memorabilia. However, I believe that evidence presented to support these assertions in these matters has been a bit more than a preponderance of opinion.

    Evidence may never be discovered to authenticate bronze GAB's. But, them again, it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility. I would welcome it.

    Opinion isn't enough to determine authenticity as has also been demonstrated in the past.

    Comment

      #17
      That silver GAB is a stunner ... beautiful finish on that one.

      Comment

        #18
        Originally posted by Bruce Simcox View Post
        I have to opine that even if a hundred collectors decide amongst themselves that a preponderance of opinion is enough to form a basis for determining authenticity it would be a mistake to think so.

        As you say, new evidence has emerged in recent years to settle the authenticity of some previously disputed items of Third Reich memorabilia. However, I believe that evidence presented to support these assertions in these matters has been a bit more than a preponderance of opinion.

        Evidence may never be discovered to authenticate bronze GAB's. But, them again, it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility. I would welcome it.

        Opinion isn't enough to determine authenticity as has also been demonstrated in the past.

        I have to agree with this statement.
        Nice silver GWL though....

        Comment

          #19
          Another badge I picked up from the group.

          Gary B
          Attached Files
          ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

          Comment

            #20
            Another beauty Gary. Gorgeous addition.

            This recent GWL hoard find has gone a long way in proving to me that these bronze GABs are wartime produced. As I mentioned in that hoard thread, we have seen bronze GABs pop up before from time to time, but finding all these mint, textbook, unissued-&-still-in-the-paper GWL badges in one grouping pushed me over the edge in believing in their wartime production. Why they were finished that way is still a mystery.

            As of yet we have found no wartime regulation for or institution of a Bronze Grade GAB and that continues to speak against these. Therefore I can understand why not everyone is convinced, and I also welcome more evidence that will hopefully turn up in the future.

            Given the context of that GWL hoard find, as well as the several bronze GAB examples we have found previously, I wouldn't hesitate to pick one of these up for the collection.

            Tom
            If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

            New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
            [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
            Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

            Comment

              #21
              Hi Gary

              Thanks for posting pics of the GABs.

              Would it be possible to post the reverse of both badges?

              best regards
              Graeme

              Comment

                #22
                Originally posted by Graeme View Post
                Hi Gary

                Thanks for posting pics of the GABs.

                Would it be possible to post the reverse of both badges?

                best regards
                Graeme
                Graeme,

                Will do as soon as I can get to it.

                Gary B
                ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

                Comment

                  #23
                  Reverse
                  Attached Files
                  ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Here's a thought to ponder...
                    Other assault badges (panzer, Infantry) were produced in bronze for the motorized
                    units in Panzer and Infantry branches.
                    The general assault badge was originally called "Pioniere-Sturmabzeichen";
                    Many Pioniere units were also motorized, so perhaps a manufacturer believed that a bronze version for them would soon be authorized and produced them.
                    It certainly makes sense!
                    Why they were never authorized is a mystery.

                    I had one many years ago in a group from out of the woodwork;
                    I was never a badge collector, but mounted the badge on the loops of a tunic.
                    I sold it some years ago at an SOS show to a collector who was a WAF member,
                    do it's out there somewhere!

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Originally posted by longislandercjv View Post

                      so perhaps a manufacturer believed that a bronze version for them would soon be authorized and produced them.
                      It certainly makes sense!

                      For me that does not make any sense at all. No business or manufacturer of goods makes a product believing it might soon be in demand, and having the risk of a product staying on the shelves.

                      GWL already made Silver GABs, so all they needed to do, if and when a bronze GAB was authorized, was to use their existing GABs and finish them in bronze, the same bronze that they used for their other badges. They had everything at the factory ready to go.

                      I am not saying GWL did not produce bronze GABs, but in my opinion, not for the reason above.


                      regards
                      Graeme

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Gary B View Post
                        Graeme,

                        Will do as soon as I can get to it.

                        Gary B
                        Hi Gary

                        many thanks for posting

                        regards
                        Graeme

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Hi Gary

                          I think your GWL GABs are great (and the observer is stunning)

                          From looking at your GABs something puzzles me with regard to this being a "hoard" or a "collection of one of each badge type" collected and stored at the same time.

                          I would expect the GABs to be identical. The set ups are different, especially having completely different style of catch and also the way the long pin is fitted to the hinge area. Additionally, as an observation, I do not think I have ever seen the rectangular style catch plate shown on your bronze

                          Some might argue that different workers might use different techniques and different catches, but I would not be convinced by that.

                          Separately, from the pics in this thread, the obverse of the badges look slightly different to me. If you study the two leaves at the top and left of the eagle you will see a difference in the bronze and silver.
                          The bronze does not have a clear ouline of the leaves but the silver does. The bronze looks like it has a die flaw. This could indicate that the bronze was produced in a later worn die, rather than at the same time. Certainly these two badges look like they were not produced in the same timeframe on the same die.

                          Gary, you have the badges in hand, is there really a difference in the leaf area that I have highlighted?

                          It might be interesting to see the two PABs that are in the "hoard" as well, if anyone has better pics of those.

                          regards
                          Graeme

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Hi Graeme,

                            Here are better pictures of the wreath area I think you are referring to.

                            Gary B
                            Attached Files
                            ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

                            Comment

                              #29
                              There is another thread here and on another forum discussing the P&L bronze GAB.

                              Attached is reverse of one of the bronze PABs from the hoard, courtesy of Team Militaria.

                              Gary B
                              Attached Files
                              ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

                              Comment

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