I agree with Hans and Lorenzo
The claws of the eagle are with balls, and I don't think those are good signs.
best regards
Indy
The claws of the eagle are with balls, and I don't think those are good signs.
best regards
Indy
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The claws of the eagle of the AS IABs are with balls too and are accepted originals.Originally posted by Indy
See below..Comment
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Hi Sven
To compare with your picture. The further ones are with real balls....and they are big balls....yours is normal. I have a KM or HM in triangle....they are relatives, but the claws are not big balls.
best regards
IndyComment
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Hi IndyOriginally posted by Indy
you are right that the balls on the 43 and the fake WH are bigger than on the AS IAB I showed.
I guess I have to sleep on my opinion.Comment
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Gentlemen,
Here is a "43" that looks nothing like the one John has posted. It appears to be zinc. It is deeply dished with a non-magentic pin. The hinge/catch are sodered into the badge itself. The maker's mark looks to be a match with John's. No "big balls" on the talons though. I like John's better but..... You the experts will sort this out I hope.
ChetZinc stinks!Comment
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ReverseZinc stinks!Comment
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Guys,
This is the best I can do with my scanner. So please don't ask for the eagles nose hair shot!
ChetZinc stinks!Comment
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Hi Guys,
Well, at first tought it wasn't a match to the WH copie based upon the cripness of the strike that looks much better, especialy in the bayonet area on John's badge. However all the other details seem to be there and the differences are most likely the result of John's better pics. I think you guys might well have a point here and this is a variant on the same theme. Strange thing is that we never saw this variant before.
Chet what you posted looks like a B&NL IAB that most likely was refinished. However taken in to account the 43 mm it all of a sudden becomes very suspicious too.
So not 100% sure what I'm looking at, two originals (John's example being the badge used as role modell for the WH copies) with phantasy mm or two copies all together. If both are copies then the fakers arent really clever. Why bother going to the trouble of making two different IAB copies and than give them away by using that same mm. Doesn't make much sence.
KR
Philippe
KR
PhilippeLast edited by Philippe DB; 03-15-2005, 02:06 AM.Comment
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Hi Philippe
Basically, I felt strange about the 43 in square. Mostly, we can see the numbers are raise types on war badges. However, we can see numbers in square on EK1, the square is a shallow base and the numbers are standing on the base.
second, the ball-liked claw is a red flag. Normally we can't find it on orginal IABs. One more thing, the eye of eagle in John's pic is very similar to the one on fake WH IAB.
best regards
IndyComment
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Indy I agree with you the WH and the 43 are of the exact same design that's not an issue anymore. Problem is can we be absolutely sure that the 43 is a copy, and if it is a copy does that make the IAB Chet posted a copy too or are we just looking at post ware added mm.
That WH copy is a fairly commonly encountered IAB so the people making it produced quite a big ammount of them. Why didn't they do the same with the 43. After going through all the trouble of fitting another set-up you would expect to see more of them pop up. Like I wrote when John first posted this badge, this is an absolute first for me and for all other IAB collectors I know. John's badge also was dicussed on a German forum and nobody over there had ever seen anything like it either.
@Skip, where did the JB&co link come from al of a sudden?
KR
PhilippeComment
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Phil,
I always thought that JB&Co is Julius Bauer. The only other JB would be Jakob Bengel (44).
SkipLOOKING FOR ALL ITEMS CONNECTED TO HERBERT SCHOB.Comment
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Hi Guys
I just checked Tucker's book. Tucker put JB&Co with 43. If so.....Chet's IAB doesn't look like a JB&Co IAB.
best regards
IndyComment
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Sorry Skip your're absolutely correct of course and since JB&co always used it's own and unique design it doesn't make any sense to find the mm on John's badge.Originally posted by skip
But since Chet posted his badge we already knew that the mm was bogus. However what about the badges?
KR
PhilippeComment
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If I was forced to make a decision I would say that Johns badge is an out and out copy while Chets is probably a refinished original with added MM.
That is only my opinion and not a statement of fact nor is it a "smokescreen"
SkipLOOKING FOR ALL ITEMS CONNECTED TO HERBERT SCHOB.Comment
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Well guys......
......What I think is perhaps now what is starting to be more and more of a problem is basically we are seeing some of the older repros that were churned out in the fifties, sixties and early seventies. Not just limited to IAB's but many of the badges from all the branches. Regarding the aforementioned dates I remember seeing many of the Kreigsmarine and Heer badges seemingly coming out of the woodwork during the early seventies; all of them were priced in the $5-15 range. Not to mention the 'high quality' repros selling in the gun magazines. Many of the sellers offering these badges made the claim that they were produced using wartime dies. Now that 30 years and more has elapsed the aging of these repros is fooling people and bringing questions of authenticity into play. We should be careful of how we interpret these newly found badges with unknown mm's.
There was a finite amount of awards produced during the TR era by a finite number of companies. As a result of the destruction of records and the understandable reluctance of many Germans from that era unwilling to be connected with the TR in verifying these questionable, newly found items, we should probably start to accept the idea that we are near to, or already at, the point where remarkable new discoveries of previously unknown makers is at an end.
I'm not trying to totally discount the possibility that some here-to-fore unknown makers marked awards just might surface, but I believe that it is getting to be more and more nothing other than a stretch of the imagination.
My .02
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Bruce
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