The eagle has landed, finally - Juncker Heer Para

[Waffenreich]

Good afternoon Gents,

This guy just flew in a few minutes ago.

Finish is respectable and it has the wreath characteristics Tom mentions on pg. 437 of his book for a 3d pattern zinker. The only thing I can't get my head around is that the pin is not magnetic as he states it should be in his table on pg. 435 for the pattern with the flat wire catch

This is the first Heer para I've added to my collection and barring any negative comments I'm extremely happy with it.

Your feedback is appreciated

Have a good weekend!

vr

Bob

[Waffenreich]

Slightly different lighting to show the finish.

[Waffenreich]

.

[Waffenreich]

Wreath blobs

[Tony Bologna]

Stunning, I wouldn't obsess over the pin

[Giel VW]

Actually... one should!

I'm sorry to carry the bad news here, but this is very high end copy of the late war Juncker army para badge. Gold and silver finish are completely wrong, soft edges on the eagle and wreath and oversized rivets zink too deep into the wreath are easy red flags to spot here. The base material isn't that cracky/dry zink of which this badge should be made of, but rather a silver and shiny looking zink.

So, send let the eagle land again on the location from where it came!

[Waffenreich]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies.

Giel, I must say this is both very disappointing, and very disturbing. I compared this badge to not only the plethora of examples here on WAF, but Tom's book as well and with the exception of the pin not being magnetic, it is identical. If this badge is a high end copy for the reasons you state then many here belonging to members "in the club" that were given the thumbs up should be reevaluated.

I bought this from a gentleman whose integrity I place a high value on and when he said it came from an estate auction in Florida I had no reason to question it.

Equally disturbing is the fact that there are 250 views to this Thread, many who viewed it are as qualified as you to cast an opinion and all I could get are two (you and Tony). That is a real indicator of where we are going in this hobby as many who seem to be the gurus are not willing to make a call (unless it is a no-brainer like a Meyer IAB or something) out of concern that they may get egg on their face once some definitive info surfaces regarding the authenticity of an item (or they glom on once opinions start flying in).

I appreciate your opinion, and do take it to heart, but I am not sending this badge back as "bad" yet owing to this one negative comment. If Tom is gracious enough to weigh in, as I would expect he would based on his history of providing feedback on these to others, then I will act appropriately. After all, it was his book that this was measured against when my friend made the decision to pursue it in the estate auction in the first place.

I am not one to grasp at straws, but I am a realist and as I was not there between 1939 - 1945 I can accept that the slightest deviations can exist to what we have labeled as "textbook" based on the infinitesimally small sample of what we've observed compared to what was produced at the time.

As I said above G, I respect your opinion, and will send this bird back up to circle until other opinions come in.

Best regards to you and Sander!

vr

Bob

[Chet Sowersby]

Bob.
You can't take in the number of views as a indicator into consideration in the least. Many look just to view the badge just as I did. I don't know squat about either two classes of paratrooper badges so I would never make a comment upon one. Most of us only comment on badges we collect which means we have taken the time to study our chosen area of interest. Collecting Heer paratrooper badges is a pretty narrow field so IMO there would not be a lot of knowledgeable comments being made.

Chet

[Waffenreich]

Thanks for your comments Chet and I do honestly take that into consideration, but one thing I do when posting an item is watch to see who views it as I like to keep SA on the who's interested in certain items and who's not. Considering some of the guys I've seen look at this and their level of interest, propensity to comment on like items, and level of credibility I find it disappointing when I get one or two comments. I don't know, maybe it's my breath?

In all seriousness, I know nobody is obligated to comment on anything - I take the approach that if I have something meaningful to contribute when somebody is asking for help, I provide it.

Thanks again for commenting and I do take your feedback seriously. Good hunting

Bob

Bob.
You can't take in the number of views as a indicator into consideration in the least. Many look just to view the badge just as I did. I don't know squat about either two classes of paratrooper badges so I would never make a comment upon one. Most of us only comment on badges we collect which means we have taken the time to study our chosen area of interest. Collecting Heer paratrooper badges is a pretty narrow field so IMO there would not be a lot of knowledgeable comments being made.

Chet

[BobI]

I would listen to Giel.
Bob

[ebj]

I appreciate your comments, my friend. I have followed and participated in this forum over several years and I have noticed that there is a tendency to pick apart authentic TR period items and, on the other hand, say nothing about bad stuff. There are obviously some very well-qualified members in the various collecting areas, but there are also many who make comments or give feedback that are way out of their areas of expertise, if any. My first introduction to this forum was several years ago when photos of a very nice vet acquired Waffen-SS cap of mine was posted for comments. Every tiny detail of the cap was, for the most part, questioned by the majority. I later sold it to a knowledgeable collector/dealer for a very handsome price. Hang in there!

Old-timer who began collecting and enjoying these fascinating and historic TR items in 1956! I still have a small collection of select items in my den/library that I enjoy.

[Jeff V]

Definitely a fake, Giel is right. Hinge, finish, rivets, and finishing of the badge are giveaways. Sorry for the bad news.

[Waffenreich]

Definitely a fake, Giel is right. Hinge, finish, rivets, and finishing of the badge are giveaways. Sorry for the bad news.

Hinge???? What the h..l is wrong with the hinge? This is a 3d pattern zinker with a short barrel block hinge EXACTLY as shown on pg 461 of the book.

The rivets are the same rivets, but not pinched at the exposed portion where peened. This causes the head on these to look bigger. Tom states on pg. 460 "Slightly pinched tops are sometimes seen on these later badges", not always.

I'm going to say this once more - I am not the type to grasp at straws, nor am I hell bent on keeping this and trying to convince myself it's real. I can return it with no issue on his end, or regret on my end. That said, I have looked at probably 50 Heer paras on this site, and A) no two "originals" of the same pattern from the same maker looked alike, and B) this badge in-hand looks nothing from a finish standpoint like it does in the pictures.

Honestly - I think a very original badge has a real possibility of getting cast into the abyss here.

[Rakk1]

I'm certainly no expert on Fallschirmjager badges, but it looks exactly like the Juncker 3rd Pattern that is shown in Thomas Durante's book. Not to hijack the thread, but were these general issue to the Army units after 1943 or did the newly qualified paratrooper have to purchase these privately? And did the Army re-issue the cloth Army badge after 1943 as well?

[Jeff V]

Hinge???? What the h..l is wrong with the hinge? This is a 3d pattern zinker with a short barrel block hinge EXACTLY as shown on pg 461 of the book.

The rivets are the same rivets, but not pinched at the exposed portion where peened. This causes the head on these to look bigger. Tom states on pg. 460 "Slightly pinched tops are sometimes seen on these later badges", not always.

Not the same hinge. There are tool marks on Juncker hinges from the machining process that are not present on this badge. Do you think the finish on this badge looks like a finish that the Juncker factory applied? I don't. Where is the hand filing of the wreath. I could go on and on. This is not one I would want to spend my hard earned euros on.