Winkler had a couple on his site not long ago, probably still there. From what I remember they had a different reverse setup, the pin had quite an unusual indentation at the top. This feature was also on a badge sold by Detlev a few weeks ago.
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Thanks for the comments, Stijn, one problem I have is I'm leaving for Australia on Sunday and won't be back for 6 weeks, I have a return on this badge but will not return it.
The only wreath that kicks this one's butt is my OM pilot badge, but then that has a rather funky wreath to say the least. I have quite a good collection of badges to compare this to in terms of just general quality.
This badge is in my hand and I lay it next to the one in Detlevs book mine has more detail.. to be expected because the one in the book is only a picture, and certainly my badge lost a lot of detail in the photos.
Thanks again for all the comments, but I would like someone to show me their original one for me to compare.. because my badge is identical as far as can be assertained to all those I've seen
1. The one in Detlevs book
2. the one in Angolias book
3. The one on Kai site, though on the rear side his has rivets.
We can all agree to have our own opinions.
My opinion.. the one that matters I suppose is that it's genuine.
Thanks again to everyone
Stijn I will try to let you get your hands on this badge, I intend to start going to the European shows in future, if you attend those I will bring it for you.
ColinComment
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Hi Guys,
To be honest I don't like this badge and I'm also not a specialist when it comes to this extremely rare glider pattern but than again who is.
What bothers me most on this badge is the following
1. Very poor wreath detailing
2. Like Tom mentioned, the messed up swas.
3. Most important for me and only based upon what these pics tell me, this is a zinc badge. Can somebody show me another zinc luftwaffe badge with an early buntmetall set-up
KR
PhilippeComment
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I am not an expert on metals for sure, but I'm not sure if this is zinc.The finish is a bit worn above the hinge, hard to see in the pic maybe but does not look like zinc.
CComment
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For us uneducated one, is this badge just a fat variation of the regular glider badge or was it a completely different badge issued to pilots of big gliders e.g. pilots of the ME321Comment
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I'm afraid for me, I have to sign off for the night, my computer is in my kids room and she's going to bed now.
I feel I've let this badge down with my pics somehow, I just can't seem to do it justice.. whatever.
I sent Stijn good detailed pics in emails and he has a love for these badges, in his opinion it is good but would like to see it for himself, that is fair enough.
No disrespect intended but most other comments are based on my pics and not a foundation of knowledge on this rare badge... where the hell do I find another one if I sent it back because some people on here, people who don't own one and as far as I know have never even handled one have a feeling?
Ok I asked for opinions but I really hoped to have opinions from someone who actually owns a known for sure good badge. the badge in Detlevs book, the best pic to compare is not exactly detailed either to say the least, and as I've said in direct comparison IMO they are VERY close if not the same.
As Stijn says it appears these badges are not well detailed in the first place.. he said it's normal. Hopefully he can see it for himself soon.
For me the matter is closed and I keep it, good luck to everyone else in getting another like it.
ColinComment
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Large eagle glider badge
Hello,
@ Phillipe : no need to worry => i am as honoust as can be with the provided pictures. You do have the chance to see such a badge in the flesh this comming saturday my friend, as with my lection i will give at the KLM-MRA. There the vet. aquired badge will be shown + you can convince yourselve that these large birds do look very sloppy but then again are magnificent also.
The best way to be 100 % certain about it as said before is handling the actual badge and compare it towards a known original. Iff Collin can come along i do offer him to do a side to side comparison. Iff this side comparison is also a match then we have 99 % certainity. I
This badge is certainly no Zink, I Assume it was polished at a certain stage and that caused the very shiny effect on it.
I offered towards Collin to do a SEM scan on my expenses to measure the actual material of my badge and his badge. Iff the materials have the same elementary composition then he has a 100 % winner.
Now towards the background of these large eagle badges. All glider badges (the normal pieces => such as for example : C.E.Juncker & BSW pieces and the large eagle pieces) are for the same type off qualification. Namely being a trained Luftwaffe glider pilot.
The difference is that the so called normal pieces are the actual awarded ones, the large eagle is a private purchased example.
I have seen a few (3 to be exact) still with the veterans + was lucky enough to be able to obtain 1 from these 3 directly from the vet. All these veterans who have this type of badge in their possesion where trained at the very same date and in the very same unit !!!!
They all do confirm that it was not a award piece but obtained privatly though the unit. Why did someone then create such a badge? I am sure that we will never know 100 % certain the answer towards this but 2 different glider veterans do confirm more or less the same.
Thee badge was bought because some glider pilots did find that the badge they where awarded after the hard training was simply to flimsy looking (weel you can't discuss about taste it seems) + thereofre they obtained such a badge.
Pictural proof is also there that these badges where also worn and it seems that the glider forces where not that strict to check out what the soldiers did wear.
I am writting on a book (or should i say publication) about the German glider pilots badge, this type of badge will also be described, etc ... and more pictural proof will be shown.
Hopefully this has solved a few questions + i am pretty sure more questions are born also
Cordial greetings,Comment
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Patrick W. has made a good point about this type of badge, the one about an odd little dip in the pin, seems to me it is also on the one in Detlevs book, interesting that Patrick has seen it on other badges of this type too.
I tried to capture it in a picture 2 or 3 times but failed, I will try to circle roughly where it is on this pic. Stijn, does your pin have a little dip in it?
CComment
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Tried to make a pic with my neighbours scanner, failed has come out dark because the large wings prevent getting the right angle, can still make out the dip though i think.
Cheers
ColinComment
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Another small point.. I've had 2 offers of over 3000 Euros for this badge, just how rare are they? Detlev put the price at 2000 Euro in his book.
CComment
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All I can say, sell it for 3000.- EUR!
No matter what it is, that is a good deal.
Cheers, Frank
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Hi Colin,Originally posted by colin davie
I find this a bit strange. Personally I know of nobody who has much experience with these "2 pattern" glider badges. Could you ask the two collectors who make you this offer to step out of the dark and share their knowledge with us. I think we can only learn from them and if they are prepared to spend that kind of money they for sure know what they are doing. Also it could be helpfull if you told us where you found the badge and if maybe it came with somekind of provenance. Was it a privat purchase or did a dealer sell it to you?
KR
Philippe
BTW: could you also ask these collectors what's wrong with the examples offered by Winkler. I suppose those are all fakes otherwise they would have bought them long ago for less then €3000Last edited by Philippe DB; 02-25-2005, 05:07 PM.Comment
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There currently 4 of these on kai's site, and most have been there a long time( for less than 3000 euros)
jeffLooking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.Comment
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I was shown some pics from a badge that was in Kai,s archive, I was emailed the pics because the gent who sent them said he did'nt want to post them here because of copyright issues.
Why did someone not care to inform me of these badges yesterday when I was asking for info instead of the night before I leave in the morning for London and Australia?
I did not ask the 2 gents who offered me money for this badge if they shop with Kai Winkler... why should I ask them that?
Maybe now they are happy shoppers shopping elsewhere that you've let that little cat out of the bag. If I did'nt know about them why not them too?
I only mentioned these offers because I was surprised myself at what was offered and sought some idea of rarity because of it, I certainly did not pay 3000 euros that's for sure, but if other people want to pay that then speak to them about their logic not me. That's right speak to them because....
I have shown this badge only to Stijn in emails and on here, so unless they are friends of Stijn and got the info from him (which I seriously doubt) then presumably they found out about this badge from this very thread.. so if they want to come out of the dark and share their knowledge.... that is for them to decide.
Where does all the venom come from?
Twice now, the first time an original HJ Distinguished Foreigner Badge, I have shown a rare badge on these type of forums, only for someone who by their own admission did'nt even know the badge existed pop up and call it fake.
Personally, and please check my past posts if you want, if I don't own a certain badge then I 100% would never dream of calling someone elses a fake. I keep my mouth shut. Balloon schmalloon exepted, but then I have been told a tale of them.
I have been advised more than once not to show such items on these forums, but stuff it, I have learnt so much myself because others are willing to share, so if people ignorant of my badge call it a fake then so be it, I don't really care if the person has never even handled one.. why should I?
C
p.s 30mins it has taken me to write this because I keep getting called away, sorry but I just don't have time for it now.Last edited by colin davie; 02-25-2005, 06:46 PM.Comment
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I certainly meant no venom, and I am happy for you that Stijn believes your badge is an original. I only questioned why someone would offer over 3000 euros when there are a number of these for sale right now on Kai's site. Like you said maybe they did not know. Anyway, best wishes, and thanks for sharing.
jeffLooking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.Comment
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