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**Patrick W** · 02-22-2005, 06:10 AM

heres the back

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**Thomas Durante** · 02-22-2005, 06:27 AM

Hi Patrick

The gold finish on your F&BL is consistant with other gold F&BLs I have seen. The wear pattern also looks fine and what I would expect to see. I think its fine. The only thing I would worry about is that the backplate for F&BLs are easily removed, making it hard to tell if it is refinished. The pin, hinge and catch all have the same finish on them which could be a sign of a refinished badge on other makers, but this is consistant with bronze and silver F&BLs, so I think the finish on this gold clasp is original. Bronze and Silver F&BLs have the finish on the hinge pin and catch as well.

Tom D.

**Robin Lumsden** · 02-22-2005, 06:38 AM

Sorry, but I think the clasp has been refinished.

The original finish on this clasp should be a much brighter 'yellow' gold..........like the honour roll clasps etc.

**Ron Weinand** · 02-22-2005, 10:44 AM

Gold CCC

I must agree with Robin, looks refinished to me. Gold should be much brighter.

Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

**Thomas Durante** · 02-22-2005, 11:30 AM

I agree that finish on some gold badges is much brighter, but on some other badges, the finish looks like this, a duller golden color. I think when you are comparing finishes, you must compare finishes from the same maker. This could very well be refinished, but from these pics, I see no reason to doubt it. Coupled with the appropriate wear pattern, I think the finish is original to the clasp. These gold clasps are very late war and I would expect the gold finish to be a gold wash vs. gold plating or gilded.

Robin or Ron, can either of you post pics of a good gold F&BL clasp? I have only 1 in my files, and the finish is the same. That one could be refinished as well as I don't know where it came from.

Tom D.

**Patrick W** · 02-22-2005, 01:34 PM

Thank you Tom, Robin and Ron for your opinions. The badge is not mine but for sale from a dealer and i must say that I am torn on this one. The wear looks correct and i can't see any sign of the backplate having been prised out.

I will have to have a serious think about this one, I guess that hands on is the best way to determine whether the finish is good or not.

Any one else have an opinion on this clasp?

Thanks,
Patrick

**upbeek** · 02-22-2005, 01:40 PM

ccc

hi patrick,the badge looks ok to me ,cheers chay

**Robin Lumsden** · 02-22-2005, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by tdurante

These gold clasps are very late war and I would expect the gold finish to be a gold wash vs. gold plating or gilded.
Tom D.

Tom.
I know where you're coming from, but that's not necessarily the case.
The Honour Roll Clasps were also late war (later than the CCC in fact) but still had fire gilding with a bright yellow gold.
This was a high award.
It should be finished accordingly.
I'm sorry, but I can't post pix here now.

**Jeff V** · 02-22-2005, 07:20 PM

For a zinc clasp the finish looks right on to me.

jeff

**Thomas Durante** · 02-22-2005, 08:01 PM

Hi Robin,

I agree with you in principal that an award such as the Nahkampfspange in Gold should have been finished with a better quality substance other than a gold wash. But compare the finish of other F&BL badges (specifically the U-boat badge and the Destroyer badge for instance). The finish on these are very similar to this one. I am not 100% sure that this is not a refinished job, but just looking at the evidence before us so far. I think the wear pattern coupled with this similar finish on other war badges is good evidence of original finish. Schwerin is pretty much regarded as the top quality Kriegs badge maker of the 3rd Reich, but look at their zink sub badges. Finish is remarkably similar to this one as well.

re. Patrick's comment about the backplate, F&BLs have a pretty lousy crimping technique that allows the backplate to come out pretty easily. These F&BLs can also be bent slightly, enough to get the plate out (don't try this at home kids). It would not be hard to remove the plate and refinish it, and would leave absolutely no trace of it being removed.

Frank H., Philippe, and thoughts on the finish?

Tom D.

**Adrian Stevenson** · 02-23-2005, 06:05 AM

Hi Patrick, I would be happy to consider this clasp to be Gold. I own a gold one by FFL.

Cheers, Ade.

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