Silver Spanish Wound Badge Stickpin opinions please

[bwanek1]

I know nothing about miniatures, but I would assume that if this one is genuine it is somewhat rare. Can any of you experts out there tell me if I've got a good find or costume jewelry? It is 20mm top to botom.

Thanks,
Brad

[WARLORD]

These are unccommon. This is the first form of the 1939 wound badge and was replaced by the normal form.

[Gerd Becker]

Hi Brad,

your stickpin is fine. You are right, you don´t see them often. I had one similar like yours and i sold it for 50 Dollar. I have seen them on dealers sites for more than that.

Hope, this helps

best,
Gerd

[Frank Heukemes]

I can only echo this, uncommon and original. I have got one too though!

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

I picked this First Pattern Wound Badge Mini up off the E-stand recently and it arrived today. I have a concern over it though. The detail is excellent BUT the pin and round plate attachment seem to be an extremely close match to a repro Blockade Breaker "mini" I picked up some time ago.

Any further thoughts are requested so I can decide if I need to return it within the 7 day period.

Regards
Mike K

[Gerd Becker]

Hi Mike,

its allways very difficoult to judge a stickpin, because there are no absolutes like on normal sized badges. I have to agree, i would be concerned too, now that i have seen that Blockadebrecher. Its a very close match unfortunately.

Thats why i allways prefered the versions without backplate.

best,
Gerd

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi Mike

I can understand your worries but IMO there is a big difference in quality on those two needles. The spiral cutting, the sharpend end and the overall looks of the needles are very different. The fake minuature BB badge seems to be a very good repro and those who made it must have had a original minuature stickpin to copy so just because they look alike dosen't have to mean....

Also the details on the BB badge, judgeing from the back, seems very soft, whereas the WB looks sharp and the patina belieweable. But ofcourse the fakers use different productionmethods on different bagdes.

But I would give the WB a careful

Cheers Thomas

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi again

I'm at work now, and were just down in the magazines and stumbled over a box full of Winterhilfe badges and just to a look. In it one of the badges had lost a needle and the loose needle had a characteristica which might help you determine wether your WB is good or not. If my eyes are not decieving me I can see two stripes (see picture) where the needle meets the plate on the WB the very same stribes are present on the WHW needlepin but not on the BB. I'm not quite sure what it all means but it could be that the BB pin is too good manufactored - if you know what I mean!

Cheers Thomas

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Mike,

This got me curious and I looked at my 19mm example again. Not that it condemns or confirms the item in question, but here is the one I own and feel to be original, just for the sake of comparison:

[Frank Heukemes]

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[Frank Heukemes]

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[Frank Heukemes]

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[J Temple-West]

Hi Mike,

1st impressions.. The pin has been replaced with a later version. On early pieces, I would expect to see the same as Frank's setup.

that, having been said... Does Brad's one have a similar round plate system or is it solder? I can't quite make it out...

[bwanek1]

Hi Mike,

1st impressions.. The pin has been replaced with a later version. On early pieces, I would expect to see the same as Frank's setup.

that, having been said... Does Brad's one have a similar round plate system or is it solder? I can't quite make it out...

I am trying to stay out of this debate since, as the seller, I am hardly impartial, but I just want to ask whether you are saying that the pin is a period replacement or a postwar replacement?

It sounds like you are saying that it is a late war replacement. In that case, I think it important to point out that this is not necessarily an "early piece" simply because it is a Spanish WB. A mini for this award could have been made for authorized recipients at any time, not only when the badge was first awarded. Furthermore, the Spanish WB in silver was awarded not only following the Spanish Cicil War (in fact only one silver WB was awarded at that time), but also to original Condor Legion members who received subsequent wounds later in the war and were then authorized the higher version of the Spanish WB at that time. Therefore, we cannot conclude that the pin is a replacement simply because it is not the earlier style.

Regards,
Brad

[Mike Kenny]

Hi guys,

Many thanks for the additional thoughts and info - much appreciated.

John, just to confirm, my/Brad's example does have a round plate (~6.1 mm diam).

Thomas, interesting info on the WHW pin. I can see what you are talking about at the plate end of the pin - it almost looks like a clamp mark/score. The way the pin is attached to the plate on the WB is different to the way it is attached on the BB repro. One question, do you recall if the other side of the round plate was smooth or did it appear that the pin had been passed through a hole in the plate?

Frank, thanks for posting pics of your example. Interestingly enough, although your example appears more worn, I think both of these came from the same die (my/Brad's example definitely appears die-struck) as the obverse detailing, down to the dot pattern and leaf details, appears to be a exact match. Having it die struck makes me think it may be OK. Frank, does your example have clear shear marks on the edges?

I don't think the pin is a replacement on this one - no indications of glue or resoldering, although it is difficult to see as the round plate is. Brad makes a good point that, even though it may be a early pattern, it may not necessarily have been produced (or finished) pre-war (bottom of the barrel theory I suppose). The combination of a tombak mini and large round plate is unusual (and possibly redundant) though.

It's a very nicely detailed mini but the round plate stickpin is really throwing me.

Here are a couple of larger scans - I'll have to upgrade my old scanner as they aren't as clear as Frank's!

Regards
Mike K