Sniper

[Antonio Scapini]

Indeed a great work Norm! Thanks!

Over the years surfaced a picture that IMO is original and a template...
I post both here. Picture is well known, template not, as far as I know.
2 years ago I spoke with the guy who found it, this an original wartime Sniper Badge template for hand embroidery badges, from the Franz Glomm GmbH Factory in Berlin. It came with a lot of other templates.

[Norm F]

Hi Antonio,

I'll get to the template in a moment, but the photo of the patch in wear is interesting, if inconclusive.

Firstly, it's been watermarked almost out of existence by someone unwilling to share any more detail in public it seems. Secondly, the date on the back of the photo is from before the badge was instituted, although the argument has been made that perhaps the original owner mis-dated it.

From what remains, it indeed could be the "favoured type" pictured there if we compare it to the only published example with provenance of sorts -- the "Heinrich Franken" patch published in the 1980's in Jörg-Michael Hormann's book and later in 2003 in Thomas Voss' Das Scharfschützenabzeichen. At this resolution it's impossible to be certain but there are no features to rule it out.

BTW, the "Heinrich Franken" accredited patch published in the 1980's appears to be the sole basis for the theory of the "accepted type" along with an uncredited example of the same sort published in 1970, Militaria Vol II Number 3 (previously posted by Mike Kenny). Both of those were the grey background "Type 1" variety -- not the "Type 2" that occurs with both grey and Feldgrau backgrounds.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Now on to the template. That's clearly a match to the type that was pictured in Hans-Ulrich Krantz's "Orden und Ehrenzeichen der Bundesrepublik Deutschland" published in 1958. This photo was from the section describing WW2 awards; none of the images in that section were of actual wartime badges. When the template first appeared is anyone's guess but it appears to have been used post-war. In either case it doesn't match the Franken patch.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Antonio Scapini]

Yes Norm, we can find it here, but we don't know it they used a wartime template:

[Antonio Scapini]

And also here there's the same badge design.

[Norm F]

...from the Franz Glomm GmbH Factory in Berlin. It came with a lot of other templates.

Franz Glomm did exist though. Here he is in the Berlin 1943 directory under the category "Schnitte u. Stanzen".

[Norm F]

And also here there's the same badge design.

Or a copy of the same design, perhaps. More primitive stitching than the 1958 version. In either case, not a match to "Sniper1944"'s photo.

[Antonio Scapini]

Yes, I agree it is not matching with the badge on the picture.

I posted the template and the "sniper 1944" picture because IMO:

1) the badge on the picture is not matching with the "accepted originals" (double curved head and beak are different)

2) the template is not matching with the so called '57 version (the neck in not angled on the template)

3) the template is the only IMO really matching with the badge on the picture.

[Norm F]

So anyway, back to the definition of the so-called "accepted" or "favoured" type.

In summary, the only defining piece (since the discrediting of the Weissinger grouping) is the Heinrich Franken example, on the assumption that the provenance as presented by Hormann in the 1980's is correct. This is the same type as published in the 1970 periodical "Militaria" although no provenance was stated for that example. (Here again is that example previously posted by Mike Kenny.)

The Franken and the Militaria examples are both the "Type 1" as shown in post#10. So, with a small leap of faith, some collectors have chosen to call this the "accepted type", and some even enthusiastically endorse them as "proven originals" (which is certainly hyperbole). With an even greater leap of faith, some have extended that to include the "Type 2" badges on a grey background (also in post #10) which is the type from the doctored Weissinger grouping, and others have gone even farther to include the "Type 2" on a Feldgrau background (post#11). Only a few brave souls dare to extend their optimism to include the borderless Type 2 patches seen in post #12 even though the stitching is identical to the Type 2 with border.

So what that does say about value? By rights, with such scanty evidence currently I can't see anyone with any fiscal responsibility spending more than a speculative few hundred Euro for a Type 1 (if that) and less than hundred for a Type 2. And even so, any chance at resale depends upon finding a buyer of equal faith. Of course, one can always get a COA from a dealer pronouncing it to "match known wartime originals"...

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

1) the badge on the picture is not matching with the "accepted originals" (double curved head and beak are different)
...
3) the template is the only IMO really matching with the badge on the picture.

The photo is too poor to draw any such conclusions IMO -- maybe yes maybe no. It requires a leap of faith to say that template was used. A similar leap of faith could suggest the photo has a double border similar to the Franken badge.

There's not a lot one can say about that photo other than simply "it's a Sniper badge". Maybe if Sniper1944 had been willing to share a high resolution scan a little more could be discerned but even so there would never be enough detail to discern a Type 1 from a Type 2.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

So to answer juoneen's question here are the WAF stats on the numbers posted for the various types in the last 11 years:

Type 1 (grey background)
Grade 1: 1 posted
Grade 2: 3 posted
Grade 3: 4 posted
Total: 8

Type 2 (grey background)
Grade 1: 7 posted
Grade 2: 6 posted
Grade 3: 4 posted
Total: 17

Type 2 (Feldgrau background)
"Grade 0": 3 posted
Grade 1: 11 posted
Grade 2: 6 posted
Grade 3: 2 posted
Total: 22

As far as "rarity" goes, over the same time period there have been quite a few postings of versions deemed obvious fakes -- all of which were less common than any of the above.

Best regards,
---Norm

I should qualify the above by mentioning those numbers were drawn only from the Heer Badge forum and not the Heer Uniforms forum -- the numbers are likely large if one sorts through the Uniforms forum as well although some would be repeat postings.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's a "classic" Type 1, Grade 2 patch currently on Weitze asking 4500 Euro. Once again, this is the same type as the Grade 3 Heinrich Franken patch.

However, it doesn't add to the rare pool of only three examples of Grade 2 patch posted here over the years since it's the very same patch previously sold by Detlev Niemann and posted by Antonio as well. It's certainly made the rounds.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here are the previously posted images of the same Type 1 silver patch.

[Norm F]

The Weitze photo allows us to see the detail showing that the braided border consists of cord wound with wire bullion.

[Norm F]

We don't have as good photos of the Grade 3 version of the Type 1 patch, but from what's posted in the past I think the gold braid is made from cellon wrapped thread. It seems a bit odd that over the years we've seen four of these Grade 3 patches posted (not including the Heinrich Franken example), three of the silver and only one of the Grade 1 patch. Intuitively, one would expect the Grade 1 to be more common.