GAB - unkown maker?

[Nordfront]

Couldn't find any close match from GAB gallery or any recent threads. Any opinions please?

[Nordfront]

More.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Nordfront,

Its a Juncker in very nice condition, however it may have a replaced hinge and pin. The finish on the hinge and pin look similar to the badge, so it might be OK. What concerns me is the apparent different solder footprint under the feet of the hinge and this is not the typical hinge/pin we see on GABs by this maker.

Tom

[Nordfront]

Thank you very much Tom. Juncker is a good news.

I guess I can live with that possible replaced hinge and pin, since I bought it
(from the Ratisbon's auction) just to complete field worn officers converted M42 tunic.

[Andreas Klein]

Thank you very much Tom. Juncker is a good news.

It's not a Juncker ... it's a nice Carl Poellath GAB with - imo - a repaired hinge but perfect to complete a tunic

[Thomas Durante]

It's not a Juncker ... it's a nice Carl Poellath

Its not a Carl Poellath; finding a single example in a Poellath-marked packet is not enough evidence to contradict the forensic evidence that these were made by Juncker. Its likely a simple case of mismatched packet, but another possibility is that it was made by Juncker and sold to Poellath for retail sale.

Tom

[Andreas Klein]

Its not a Carl Poellath; finding a single example in a Poellath-marked packet is not enough evidence to contradict the forensic evidence that these were made by Juncker. Its likely a simple case of mismatched packet, but another possibility is that it was made by Juncker and sold to Poellath for retail sale.

Tom

Nice statement ... than please show me a single Juncker packet for the GAB or any other document linking this design to Juncker. There is nothing. So calling it Juncker made because you want to have a Juncker here is not enough evidence.

This badge was never and will never be found with anything related to Juncker but it was found several times directly coming from the family as Carl Poellath combo.

[Thomas Durante]

I could consider Poellath if we consistently found these GABs in Poellath-marked packets, but the truth is its only a single one. Its not several, people only believe that because this same exact set has been shown several times on different forums, so there is confusion. And a single packet just isn't enough, especially when it comes to Poellath.

This GAB has also been found in a Poellath-marked packet, are you suggesting that Poellath made this one as well?

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

And here is another Poellath packet, just floating by itself on a dealer's site. Wouldn't take much for it to be paired with any random unmarked GAB to make a "nice combo" for some dealer to make some good money on.

Tom

[Giel VW]

Nice statement ... than please show me a single Juncker packet for the GAB or any other document linking this design to Juncker. There is nothing. So calling it Juncker made because you want to have a Juncker here is not enough evidence.

There is not a single Juncker marked package out there, whether it was from the GAB, PAB, IAB, APB, CCC or what so ever. Following your statement that would mean Juncker never produced any army combat awards at all. You know that Juncker produced combat awards, and that it was a big producer... which design could you then link to them?

I think it's pretty clear that Juncker made the early nickel silver PAB's. With just knowing this, it's a piece of cake now to make the connections towards this GAB that started the thread. And believe me, it's not only the set up.

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Tom,

i still miss a Juncker GAB packet or any document supporting that Juncker is responsible for this design - where are they?

In post #8 you Show something which i would call a retail packet where anything could be sold with.

But i speak about the attached sets from whom i know at least 2 sets coming direct out of the soldiers family and according to Poellath they didn't act as retail seller.

[Andreas Klein]

There is not a single Juncker marked package out there, whether it was from the GAB, PAB, IAB, APB, CCC or what so ever.

I think you gave you the answer how big Juncker was by yourself .... or do you think that it is logic that a "big" maker wasn't able to mark his badges or sell them in a named packet?

Following your statement that would mean Juncker never produced any army combat awards at all.

No that isn't my statment. I can believe that Juncker could have produced badges. But i can't say on what kind of tools, in which design and how many. So i can't link a certain sort of unmarked badges to them.

You know that Juncker produced combat awards, and that it was a big producer... which design could you then link to them?

Juncker could have been a big producer for Luftwaffe awards but i can't say the same of army or navy Awards. Here we have an noticeable lack of Juncker marked stuff.

I think it's pretty clear that Juncker made the early nickel silver PAB's.

In belgium yes ...

With just knowing this, it's a piece of cake now to make the connections towards this GAB that started the thread.

You surely know that Poellath was a massive producer of the wound badge and with just knowing this, it's a piece of cake to make the connections towards this GAB which is coming out of the family and is labeled with Poellaths name.

And what counts more: 3 known Poellath sets or 0 known Juncker sets?

And believe me, it's not only the set up.

Believe me that i would like to trust you so feel free to tell me more of the mysterious "it's not only the setup" evidence.

[Giel VW]

Hi Andreas

I think you gave you the answer how big Juncker was by yourself .... or do you think that it is logic that a "big" maker wasn't able to mark his badges or sell them in a named packet?

Clearly not in this case, or do you think that a Juncker package is that rare we haven't found a single one yet?

No that isn't my statment. I can believe that Juncker could have produced badges. But i can't say on what kind of tools, in which design and how many. So i can't link a certain sort of unmarked badges to them.

But if you would try for once, please line up the candidates.

Juncker could have been a big producer for Luftwaffe awards but i can't say the same of army or navy Awards. Here we have an noticeable lack of Juncker marked stuff.

That's because most of the badges were unmarked. It's pretty easy to draw plenty of connections between the marked ones and the unmarked ones, whether the connection is located within a certain branche or between two different branches.

In belgium yes ...

I guess it's the famous "unknown maker" who made them in Germany. smile wink

3 known Poellath sets or 0 known Juncker sets?

These seem to only turn up within your circles?


With all the kidding aside, I'm always open for new theories. I was wondering, are all these Poelath packages filled with massive GAB's?

[Thomas Durante]

i speak about the attached sets from whom i know at least 2 sets coming direct out of the soldiers family and according to Poellath they didn't act as retail seller.

Hi Andreas,

Yes, that is the same set I am talking about as well (shown as from Infansammler). This is the single set I am referencing, and it is always this same exact set that has been shown multiple times on other forums. And did it come "directly from the vet's family"? I don't know if that has been confirmed or just hearsay.

I agree with you 100% on the "common retail packet" with the unmarked RK-attributed GAB, but I only show it to prove that packets can and do get switched. Not always intentionally either, maybe just an easy mistake. It simply highlights the risk of trying to make a solid-proof maker connection by way of a single packet and nothing else.

On the other hand, if we consistently find several of these combos to the same maker, then I could get behind it. But that is not the case here in my opinion.

Here is another example; I don't think we would seriously consider this SHuCo-design IAB to be made by Wiedmann, even though it was found in a Wiedmann packet.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

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