IAB - Hollow Bronze

[hlynur76]

Hello.

Opinion on this Zink IAB would be appreciated. I´m not in to IAB´s, it looks original but I have no idea who is the maker.
.

[schwelch]

Hi,

nice original IAB in FLL design.

BR
Sven

[fischer]

Hello

I agree with my good friend Sven...a very nice zinc FLL Design hollow IAB.

There are three slightly different FLL Design zinc hollows in regards to the obverse details.
I refer to this one as the Type 3 example because of the webbed sling area detail shown below. The other two do not have this attribute.

Finish is very nice on this one, congrats...

Best Regards, fischer

[stewy]

Hello

I agree with my good friend Sven...a very nice zinc FLL Design hollow IAB.

There are three slightly different FLL Design zinc hollows in regards to the obverse details.
I refer to this one as the Type 3 example because of the webbed sling area detail shown below. The other two do not have this attribute.

Finish is very nice on this one, congrats...

Best Regards, fischer

Hi mate, just wondering does your example have a similar pin to the first one shown? Stewy

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Hlynur,

Very nice original in great shape. As to the maker, FLL would be my vote because FLL is the only maker we know of that definitely used this design. But impossible to be 100% sure at this point as one has been found with an L/14 mark (Friedrich Orth).

Don, interesting webbing feature you pointed out above, this L/14-marked example seems to be the same type (from Chris T's collection).

Tom

[fischer]

Hi Guys

For ease of identification, I have separated the FLL Design zinc hollows into three types using an attribute from the obverse details.

Note, the numerical order I have placed these in does not correlate any type of progression. It is possible all three types were produced at the same time.

Type 1
This example has the cut out between the swazy and the k98k.
There are two (2) different hardware set ups found on the Type 1's including a Block hinge.

Type 2
This example does not have the cut between the swazy and the k98k.
Five (5) different hardware set ups can be found on the Type 2 including the Block hinge.

Type 3
This example has the web between the sling and k98k as mentioned above.
It also does not have the cut between the swazy and the k98k.
Five (5) different hardware set ups can be found on the Type 3 including the Block hinge like we see here on the example that started the thread.

It is interesting to me that all three use the Block hinge with "?" style catch set up.

Best Regards, fischer

[fischer]

Don, interesting webbing feature you pointed out above, this L/14-marked example seems to be the same type (from Chris T's collection).

Hi Tom

The FLL Design marked hollows are a puzzlement to me and being imprinted into the reverse only raises more questions.

I have seen this Type 3 marked L/14 before.

There are two other marked FLL Design hollows albeit, they have different LDO numbers.
There is a Type 1 marked L/56 and there is also a Type 1 marked L/66.

Hopefully, I will get to study one in hand someday.

Best regards, fischer

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Don,

I too have seen the L/56, I believe in it is Andreas' excellent collection. Can you show the L/66 marked example, I don't think I have seen that one. The fact that two of these makers (Orth & F&BL) have their own unique and different IAB designs to the FLL-Design only adds to the mystery.

Regarding the 3 types of hollow FLL badges you show in post #13, are there any differences in the veining or leaf structure to lead you to believe there were 3 separate dies used? Or are the only differences between the 3 the cutout under the swastika and the die flaw (webbing)?

Tom

[Andreas Klein]

I too have seen the L/56, I believe in it is Andreas' excellent collection. Can you show the L/66 marked example

I have to correct myself. What my old eyes spotted months ago when i wrote about that type as "L/56" mark is without doubt a L/66 marking. So we have this design with "L/14" raised and with "L/66" stamped in marking.

[fischer]

Regarding the 3 types of hollow FLL badges you show in post #13, are there any differences in the veining or leaf structure to lead you to believe there were 3 separate dies used? Or are the only differences between the 3 the cutout under the swastika and the die flaw (webbing)?

Hi Tom

The three traits I mention are the easiest way to identify which of the hollows one is looking at.

Other Differences -

If you remember our past discussion about these hollows, you pointed out the Type 1 has an additional small wing feather on the left side next to the breast feathers.
The Type 2 and 3 examples do not have this feather.
Also the Type 2 & 3 examples have a die flaw on the right side of the neck.
This flaw is not present on the Type 1.

There is also minute variation in the vein format of the wreath leaves and if you look at the 1L leaf position, you can see this.

So, yes I believe we are looking at three different dies.

Best Regards, fischer

[fischer]

I have to correct myself. What my old eyes spotted months ago when i wrote about that type as "L/56" mark is without doubt a L/66 marking. So we have this design with "L/14" raised and with "L/66" stamped in marking.

Hi Andreas

Thanks for the clarification...That makes two L/66 examples with the stamped in LDO marking.

In regards to the L/14 example...in Weber's book he mentions the word "eingeschlagen" and I took this to mean the mark was stamped in.
Also, to me, the pictures of the mark appear stamped in as well.

Possibly the owner could comment on this?

Best regards, fischer

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Don, thanks for the breakdown of the differences in the dies, quite helpful and I tend to agree we are looking at 3 different dies.

Andreas, thanks for the correction on the L/56 vs L/66. Like Don, I too thought the L/14 was stamped in. If it indeed is a raised mark, that would be big news IMO so I hope we can confirm which one it is.

So to summarize, we have an L/14 marked example and an L/66 marked example (none L/56 marked). Are we sure there are two examples of the L/66 marked one, and not just the same badge viewed at two different times?

Thanks

Tom

[fischer]

Hi Tom

You are correct...I just compared the two L/66 examples and they are one in the same.

So, it appears we have one L/14 marked example and one L/66 marked example.

Best Regards, fischer

[hlynur76]

Thanks for reply guys. Very informative

[schwelch]

Hi guys,

the L/14 maker mark is not raised, it's stamped in.

BR
Sven