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Billy Kramer

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    #1

    Jb&co Iab question

    I've just received a rather nice looking Jb&co IAB. Unfortunately I'm at work and nowhere near a scanner but am not sure if a scan is necessary in relation to my question. There are two things I find odd on the badge. One is that on parts of the leaves on the wreath (mostly on the left side of the badge), there appear to be rather large die flaws that give parts of the leaves a smooth appearance as if the die had broken and was no longer able to strike up details. In addition, when the badge is viewed from the top edge (looking down on the eagles head), there is a distinct crack or separation as if the badge were composed of 2 sheets of metal that had been pressed together but did not adhere well in this area. Anybody encounter this in one of these badges before? I've searched the forum but all the Jb&co badges I find do not have the die flaw on the leaves.
    Richard V
    Tags: None
    #2
    Hi Richard,


    I can't recall ever to have seen JB&co IAB's with die flaws, which of course doesn't mean that they don't exist. So I would very much like to see a good picture of your badge. In realtion to the other part of your question, the badge looks like i'ts made out of 2 different parts, thats really nothing to worry about, e.g Aurich PAB's are notorious for this feature. I'm sure somebody more familiar with manufacturing techniques then I am can come up with an explanation.

    Here is a scan of my JB&co, without a doubt one of the best detailed IAB's ever produced

    KR
    Philippe
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Philippe DB; 12-18-2004, 03:29 PM.

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      #3
      Hi Philippe, thanks for the fast answer. I'll try to get a scan of it tonight when I get home. I'm working until 8pm my time (it's 2:18 pm right now) so I won't be able to post it for about another 7 hours or so. It is a pretty obvious die flaw and would have to have been present on other badges if genuine as it covers quite a large area of the leaves.
      Richard V

      Comment

        #4
        Here are some scans. The first is of the obverse (full shot) the second is of the left side of the wreath showing the metal filling. The third is a close up of the wreath showing where the metal filling has obscured the dot pattern of the leaves. At first I thought it might be due to wear but the badge is in near mint condition and was probably never worn. The fourth picture is of the reverse. Any comments appreciated.
        Richard V




        Last edited by Richard; 12-18-2004, 11:53 PM.

        Comment

          #5
          I'm not as versed on the die flaws and fine details as other folks here. But, going by the fantastic pebbling on the leaves (a JB&Co feature) and the ball hinge/pin and clasp set-up, that is a very nice, genuine JB&Co IAB in my opinion!


          Here is a pic of my umarked example.

          John
          Last edited by johnrtse; 06-29-2006, 09:59 AM.

          Comment

            #6
            Reverse of my un-marked JB&C0 IAB.
            Last edited by johnrtse; 06-29-2006, 09:59 AM.

            Comment

              #7
              John, everything about this badge screams original. I've just never seen one with such filling or metal build up on the leaves before. It is as if the die had filled or worn so that no detail was struck up in those areas.
              Richard V

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                #8
                You know, That spot on your badge may not be mold wear, but simply that some material from a previously-stamped badge adhered to the mold and produced that "flat/smooth" spot, obliterating the detail in that one small area. Not enough to have the badge fail quality control, though.


                I agree that the rest of the badge has very little wear, and I would love to have that one in my collection!

                Just a thought,
                John

                Comment

                  #9
                  That is a distinct possibility except that the areas that lack detail are raised. This would imply that part of the die were missing rather than that there was something left in the die from a previous strike.
                  Richard V

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Philippe, any comments on the posted pictures?
                    Richard V

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                      #11
                      No other comments from the pictures posted?
                      Richard V

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Hi Richard,


                        Your close-up isn't really very sharp but IMO it's possible that the detailing is obscured due to the fact tha the finish is applied to thick in these areas. I have a JFS IAB in my colection with the same problem.

                        KR
                        Philippe

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Dear Richard,

                          I also think it might be ok, although I would try and find a better example.
                          Cheers, Frank

                          Comment

                            #14
                            This badge has been discussed before

                            http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=51900

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Thanks all for the responses. I don't doubt the authenticity of the badge. My only intention is to see if anyone else had seen a badge with what appeared to be detail that was "covered up" or obscured by what initially appears to be a die flaw. Philippe, can you add a scan of your JFS badge for comparison? I'll try to obtain a real close up on this badge to get a better picture so show that to which I am referring. It is possible that it may be an over abundance of finish but it appears more to be "extra" metal as in a void that was in the die where the details failed to be fully struck up. René, thanks for the link. Unfortunately the discussion centered more on authenticity, which is not the question I am raising here, and never addressed the weakness of design on some of the leaves. I notice a bit of the same on Roman's badge on the tip of some of the leaves, though with his badge this could be wear. This badge is mint and wear would not be a possibility.
                              Richard V

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