Warning: session_start(): open(/var/cpanel/php/sessions/ea-php74/sess_1fa959ebf5c2dfc90ac343386bc62264dc357572cbe207a4, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/devwehrmacht/public_html/forums/includes/vb5/frontend/controller/page.php on line 71 Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/cpanel/php/sessions/ea-php74) in /home/devwehrmacht/public_html/forums/includes/vb5/frontend/controller/page.php on line 71 The Alu PAB that wasn't - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
EspenlaubMilitaria

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Alu PAB that wasn't

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    The Alu PAB that wasn't

    Hi Guys,

    Some of you probably will remember this thread I once started in search of the ALU PAB:

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=alu+PAB

    Well this week I finally managed to add such a PAB to my collection, and I can state for sure that it isn't made out of aluminium, with its 22 grams it's just much to heavy. It also isn't a cupal construction.

    However this isn't your normal zinc PAB either and judging by the scratch marks on the reverse it looks like a previous owner also wondered about what this badge could be made of. His research technique wasn't very subtile to say the least.

    I have to admit that I also don't have a clue towards the base material. The badge feels extremely smooth when rubbing your fingers over it without the slightest amount of texture in the material. Judging by the wear pattern on the eagles head it also obvious that the material itself is much softer than normal zinc. Taken it to account how few of these badges seem to exist this alloy mixture maybe wasn't very suitable for badge production and fairly quick was replaced by something else.

    By now you probably all noticed that this badge features the so called Zimmermann design (as Frank pointed out possibly also a Juncker or Juncker project badge)

    Well for the first time I'm not really able to put a so called Zimmermann in my evolution theory. This PAB doesn't feature the typical sc. Zimmermann die flaw on the reverse just under the gun which would lead me to believe that it must have been produced quite early. However the set-up is no where near to early hardware used on these badges. But than again the very late so-caled Zimermann's don't show the die flaw either. So since it's difficult to fit in somewhere this badge might well be more fuel for the Juncker Project theory.

    This is only the fourth PAB made out of this material I have ever seen and it's worth mentioning that all of them were Bronze grades.

    And one last thing, are any of you familiar with a material called "DURAL" or "DURALUMIN".

    KR
    Philippe
    Attached Files

    #2
    eagle
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      reverse
      Attached Files

      Comment


        #4
        Hi Philippe,

        Very nice its color.
        from photos I tought is an alloy with sure inside alu .

        Ivan Bombardieri

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Philippe,

          A quick search on Duralumin or Duraluminium shows that it was used in the early 1930's by the aircraft industry ( doesn't say which countries) and is composed of..
          Aluminium (about 95%)
          copper (about 4%)
          Magnesium ( about 0.5-1%)
          Manganese ( less than 1% )
          Duralumin is stronger than elemental Aluminium and is more resistant to corrosion.It has considerably more tensile strength ( whatever that is ) than normal Aluminium which rips apart very easily.With so few of these PAB's around..could they possibly be some kind of protype that just never caught on?
          Dan
          Last edited by Levesque; 12-18-2004, 03:48 PM.
          .

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Dan,

            Well your research capabilities for sure are better than mine. It was our friend Skip who pointed out that Dural maybe could be an option, he knew that it was used in German aircraft industry but that was about everything he could tell me.

            Did some searching myself but only found that it was used in Zeppelin construction during WW I by a company called Luftschiffbau Schütte-Lanz.
            Taken the composition you gave 95% Aluminium and the period in which it was used, the weight would have to be comparable to ALU and it probably wasn't used anymore during WW II so Dural most likely isn't an option here.

            KR
            Philippe

            Comment


              #7
              Hi Philippe,

              The article also mentioned that most Alumimium peices today are actually made of Duraluminium, so it defintely still could have been in use during WWII.
              Still probably too light for your badge ..
              Dan
              Originally posted by Philippe DB
              Hi Dan,

              Well your research capabilities for sure are better than mine. It was our friend Skip who pointed out that Dural maybe could be an option, he knew that it was used in German aircraft industry but that was about everything he could tell me.

              Did some searching myself but only found that it was used in Zeppelin construction during WW I by a company called Luftschiffbau Schütte-Lanz.
              Taken the composition you gave 95% Aluminium and the period in which it was used, the weight would have to be comparable to ALU and it probably wasn't used anymore during WW II so Dural most likely isn't an option here.

              KR
              Philippe
              .

              Comment


                #8
                Hi Phil,

                If you say it's soft then it's not duralumin, you can't weld the stuff very well either because it loses it strength and has to have special laminated sheets called ALCLAD but thats beside the point. The weight ratio with pure aluminium, in fact to be exact duralumin is just heavier, but thats from an airframe perspective because of the ALCLAD (which is just aluminium)

                Phil I would suspect it's a percentage of a zinc alloy or possibley a magnesium alloy but thats very light.

                Duralumin as it's called proper was used in that mix during the war, it's actaully 3% copper and is still used to this very day in the aircraft industry along with compsite materials, the aircraft I fly are made of this Phil out of interest.

                Kr

                Marcus

                Comment


                  #9
                  this duralalumin was used by airkraft, this is right, this material is a little bit heavier the alu but strechboundary and the firmline are much higher then by normaly alu, also you can give more heat to duralumin and it bekomes no rent so far.

                  i hope you anderstand my english

                  mfg

                  diz

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks guys, so I assume it's save to exclude Dural as a possible material due to the weight.

                    I often wondered what the inside material of a muti-layered cupal badges could be? Would this be pure aluminium? If I look at my 3 layered Porsche Cupal PAB with it's 19grams it's also difficult to believe that the core of the badge is pure lightweight aluminium. The 2 layered Assmann PAB's come in at around 11 grams but these are hollow constructions.

                    When I look at the out side of the wreath the look of the material of this PAB's comes close to the core of the 3 layered Porsche. Another thing that I noticed is that the wreath on this badge is damaged a bit, exposing a lot of thiny little holes. The damaged area completely turned black. Can this discoloration of the exposed base material tell us something about the alloy composition?

                    KR
                    Philippe
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think you can count out magnesium because it would have been a critical war metal.
                      Don
                      pseudo-expert

                      Comment

                      Users Viewing this Thread

                      Collapse

                      There are currently 3 users online. 0 members and 3 guests.

                      Most users ever online was 10,032 at 08:13 PM on 09-28-2024.

                      Working...
                      X