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**Philippe DB** · 01-12-2005, 03:21 PM

Dear Frank,

Based upon what you showed us I'm following your line of thinking that both the GAB and IAB are made by one and the same maker.

How sure can we be that the maker indeed was R.K. Based upon what I know non of these IAB's, with the exception of the one in Ivan's collection, were ever encountered with a maker mark. If I'm not mistaken it was Ivan's badge that was responsible for us believing that they were Deumer made.

So what would you say Frank is there enough evidence to definitely attribute both the IAB and GAB to R.K. from now on?

KR
Philippe

**Frank Heukemes** · 01-14-2005, 02:23 PM

Dear Philippe,

Indeed, some of these IABs bear the L/11 mark. This certainly confuses things again.

The RK "certain assumption" is based on the following:

-exactly the pin of the classic ball hinge "RK" GABs (the way it is bent at the ball hinge) points theoretically towards two makers:

Rk or Adolf Scholze (which are related in some way as well, see their PABs)

IMO AS can be excluded, because the catch is different and the crimping is different, just the ball hinge and the pin are identical.

Now the so called RK GAB comes with different setups, three main ones can be identified for the massive badges only:

a) crimped round ball hinge
b) crimped in small hinge (as shown ion this thread)
c) crimped in flattened ball hinge

Small details also vary on the obverse.

This might point towards:

a) different dies, all made by Karneth
b) more than one maker (Karneth) using this design

Looking at the marked L/11 IABs (there is more than just Ivan´s), Deumer cannot be excluded and indeed has to be strongly considered as another maker using this design.

**Darrell** · 01-14-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by douglynn

what book frank???

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=Frank+Book

**Philippe DB** · 01-14-2005, 03:38 PM

Dear Frank,

Thanks for the elaboration. Also didn't know that there were other L/11 marked IAB's arround besides the one in Ivan's collection.

KR
Philippe

**Master3477** · 01-15-2005, 07:13 PM

I didn`t know there were more marked L/11 either. I would like to see some pictures of the other ones.

Anyone knows who owns the other?

**Frank Heukemes** · 01-15-2005, 08:07 PM

I have one on file which was sold by Detlev in 2002. But since it is one of his older , bad pics, you cannot see the mark, but it was described as such. I do not know who bought it.

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