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The Deumer oval crimp PAB... missing link finally found!

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    #241
    Hi Giel

    Great looking badge in superb condition. Interesting find

    It still amazes me how these "finds" continue to turn up.

    best regards
    Graeme

    Comment

      #242
      Originally posted by Norm F View Post
      I agree. In fact, this long thread could be split into three different topics:

      1) the original topic discussing Giel's oval crimp PAB (posts 1 to 64)
      2) the Deumer/Grossmann connection (posts 65 to 126)
      3) the introduction of the LDO and PK number systems (posts 127 to the present)

      with a few outlying posts near the "cross-over" points that might need inclusion in the adjacent group.

      Best regards,
      ---Norm

      Hi Guys

      Yes, I agree

      When I get some spare time I will look into.

      regards
      Graeme

      Comment

        #243
        Hi Giel,

        Another great find my friend!! The L/11 marked Deumer packet is an amazing find and only confirms what we have known for years now that Deumer is the maker of these oval-crimp badges. The fact that this one is mint is just icing on the cake.

        Tom
        If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

        New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
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        Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

        Comment

          #244
          Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
          Hi Giel,

          Another great find my friend!! The L/11 marked Deumer packet is an amazing find and only confirms what we have known for years now that Deumer is the maker of these oval-crimp badges. The fact that this one is mint is just icing on the cake.

          Tom
          I will try to post the initial photos of the complete hoard later when I can have them from the seller.
          Kind regards,
          Giel

          Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

          Comment

            #245
            Hi Giel

            Great looking PAB and an awesome find...

            Condition on this one is fantastic, congrats on your new addition!

            Look forward to seeing your pics of the complete horde find.

            Best regards, fischer

            Comment

              #246
              Originally posted by Norm F View Post
              Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
              This is significant in that it shows that almost the entire list of PK numbers were known by the PKZ, handed out to the makers and was in use by May 8 1942.

              Also important is that if these awards, with PK numbers on them were formally exchanged on May 8 1942, then it stands to reason they would have been produced weeks or even months before. Even if they were just a mere 8 days prior, then that puts the PKZ numbers in use by April and therefore we can now say "Early 1942".

              Tom
              I agree, but with the added detail that we can only be sure the PK number was being marked on the wound badge, EK2 and Order of the German Eagle by that date. We can't yet say for sure whether it was mandated for the DK, RK and Oak leaves as well by that date, especially since the Hungarian Embassy RK and OL were marked only with LDO numbers. (Although if I understand the previous postings correctly, the PK number marking for the DK came into place after the 4-rivet construction was mandated in the first half of 1942?)
              Just to continue on this discussion of the date of PK numbers appearing on awards (which I'm still hoping can eventually be separated out into its own thread from posts #127 to #239), the recent discussion on the S&L Spanish Cross relates to this topic.

              It was noted that the bronze Spanish Cross from S&L was listed in the S&L catalog circa May, 1941, and that almost all examples that appear today use the same "4"-marked wide pin from their EK1 production.

              At least one bronze SC was posted with only an L/16 mark and no "4" mark but it seems the vast majority apparently show both the "4" and the L/16? The implication is that the introduction of the PK number marked pins for the EK1 may have been very shortly after May, 1941, which would be considerably earlier than the dates previously discussed for other awards.

              Of course it's possible that there was only a limited production of solely L/16 marked crosses bronze crosses for several months before ramping up production with the "4'-marked pin stock -- we can't know for sure -- but I don't know if there are enough of these solely L/16-marked crosses around to allow for a full year longer before starting with the PK numbers?

              Best regards,
              ---Norm

              Comment

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