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    #76
    Originally posted by mufasa View Post
    I do not understand of germans badges ... but the Germans surrendered in Trieste to 4th NZ Armoured Brigade May 2, 1944 ( and I think that was one of the areas where the "Anti Partisan Badge" were very numerous (and very dangerous for those who had them on him because of the numerous partisans of Tito they were occupying the city).....
    Hello mufasa,

    you are absolutely correct. I have several items veteran brought back from Trieste or immediately around trieste including a silver APB.

    Here is one New Zealand veteran's direct account of what was happening all over Trieste at the time.

    Sorry the pages are side-ways,

    Chris
    Attached Files

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      #77
      Originally posted by 90th Light View Post
      Here is one New Zealand veteran's direct account of what was happening all over Trieste at the time.

      Sorry the pages are side-ways,

      Chris
      Attached Files

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        #78
        I summarize what are pros and cons, adding some new infos:

        PROS
        - Details are good
        - Compatible wartime hardware
        - Believable finish and wear
        - Littlejohn picked up this badge between 1945-50 as wrote in his inventory (he was in sevice from late '45 until 1947, in Palestine and in 1948 started the Berlin Airlift, so it is IMO very unlikely think that there was a manufacturing industry there only to provide for the souvenir market for GI's, when food and other staples of life had to be flown in).


        CONS
        - No photographic evidence
        - None have been found ground dug
        - None found directly from vets hands


        I have to say now there's nothing against a very late production and I believe these few badges semi hollow back can be wartime pieces.
        Based on these infos I think Souval started his production in '45 but the die worn down very fast and so few of these BKAs saw the light. In '50 he restarted his production using the wartime obverse die and made a flat back reverse die.

        Just my two cents.

        My books:

        - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
        - THE SS TK RING
        - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
        - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
        - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

        and more!

        sigpic

        Comment

          #79
          for me start thread nothing new happened,just fiction theory and hypothesis....

          the question,based on what kind of facts these were sold at the collector market?

          only Huekemes collection

          Comment

            #80
            Originally posted by kraut72 View Post
            for me start thread nothing new happened,just fiction theory and hypothesis....

            the question,based on what kind of facts these were sold at the collector market?

            only Huekemes collection
            Even the jig/saw signs on Souval badges are "nothing new" for you?
            If you know these were not post war why did you never say something about?

            To me this is an important step made from the teamwork, and all the important discoveries made on this field came from ideas, discussions, researches and connections. Even the books you use to study badges and shields like those of Tom Durante and so on, are made of this: research, study, comparison, dialogues and connections between various possibilities and hypotesis.
            If you call a CCC S&L is why there was someone who made a research and connections between different manufacturers based on an idea.

            The forum is a place were improve our knowledge, not were write only "good" or "fake".

            My books:

            - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
            - THE SS TK RING
            - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
            - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
            - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

            and more!

            sigpic

            Comment

              #81
              Originally posted by 90th Light View Post
              Hello mufasa,

              you are absolutely correct. I have several items veteran brought back from Trieste or immediately around trieste including a silver APB.

              Here is one New Zealand veteran's direct account of what was happening all over Trieste at the time.

              Sorry the pages are side-ways,

              Chris

              very interesting pages! Thank You!
              Oriano

              Comment

                #82
                Hi guys,

                Anytime we can identify a maker is a big step forward in my opinion.

                Also the fact that Souval was likely using the saw/jig method during the war, not just postwar is also a step forward.

                So really the only nagging question, for me anyway is still to find the final proof that these APBs could be wartime produced. Hypothesis and guessing is all well and good, but at the end of the day it is important that we base our knowledge on the facts. That really is the safest way moving forward, and the most accurate way. There is good circumstantial evidence to suggest these are wartime, but just like with Steinhauer and Luck, without knowing exactly when Souval started postwar production we can't say for sure that these badges are "late war" rather than "early postwar".

                The second problem is that we are basing the assumption of "late wartime" on the single report that Littlejohn picked this up between 1945 and 1950. If it was 1945, then I would have no problem saying these are wartime. But what if the date was 1950? That is certainly far into the grey area of postwar badge production (IMO), especially where Souval is involved. And that is taking Littlejohn at his word, and that he remembered where and when he got it 100% correct.

                Tom
                If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                Comment

                  #83
                  Do we know how many of these badges (and which grades) there are out there?
                  I know only 2 or 3.

                  My books:

                  - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
                  - THE SS TK RING
                  - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
                  - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
                  - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

                  and more!

                  sigpic

                  Comment

                    #84
                    The one I saw was in gold.
                    Bob
                    www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

                    sigpic

                    Comment

                      #85
                      I have had one in gold. I have also seen a silver one (Weitze, I believe it was), so all grades exist.

                      Comment

                        #86
                        Hi Fellow comrades: i like to add to the thread new photos of the badge....really appreciatte all the opinions, but i think this photos could clarified...many thanks in advance for the opinions, best Oberst.
                        Attached Files

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                          #87
                          more..
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #88
                            and last.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #89
                              After subtle analysis of thread, with positive opinion from authority of this badge Thomas Bendixen and author the legend Frank Heukemes , without negative input from others well known authors/collectors/moderators my vote is original war time example with broken catch.

                              BR

                              Comment

                                #90
                                think through this opinion...

                                Comment

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