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**Thomas Durante** · 01-16-2014, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by BassD View Post

i don't like all what i must read here and in other threads. But i was happy that we have a forum where we can discuss and not only write that this was a nice badge and thats all.

Well said Basti, and I can only agree with what you wrote here. There are plenty of other forums to visit where the only posts are "WOW" and "Great Badge" with no further discussion. For me, these are absolutely boring and I know I am not alone judging by the tiny amount of people that visit those forums compared to WAF. Basti and I are 180 degrees apart, but these discussions are the fun part of the hobby in my opinion. It is also what keeps the hobby exciting and living, compared to most other forums that I used to go to....which are all but dead.

We live in a very exciting time, with lots of new discoveries. It will not last forever, and I can only imagine how boring the hobby will be sometime in the distant future when all these little mysteries are finally figured out. I, for one am very thankful to be a part of this hobby at this great time in history.

Tom

**Thomas Durante** · 01-16-2014, 05:06 PM

Hi guys,

Trying to bring this thread back on track. If Patrick feels this discussion is detracting from his oohhs and ahhhs, then I would be happy to break this thread out into a separate thread for those that might want to continue.

I would like to go back to Andreas' point here:

Originally posted by Andreas Klein View Post

"DRGM 653146" is not a maker mark - it's only the code saying that the firm of Paul Meybauer was the founder of the design of the used screwback disk. It doesn't say that the whole badge was made by them - someone used a setup invented and sold by Meybauer.

If this is true, can anyone show one of these screwbacks on another maker's cross? If this can be done, then I think Andreas has a valid point and this screwback doesn't automatically mean this badge was produced by Meybauer.

As far as I am aware, this screwback is only to be found on Meybauer products. Some of these screwbacks are marked with Meybauer's "PM" maker mark, in addition to their DRGM number (as shown on this EK1 from Montgomery's Burns' excellent collection). In other cases, like this Sileasian eagle, the screwback is left unmarked but we can see Meybauer's coat on the badge itself (from netus' excellent collection).

I would be interested in seeing if these screws are found on any other maker's badges. If not, then it would seem pretty open and shut that only Meybuaer used this screwback on their own products and didn't sell their design to others.

Tom

Attached Files

**Bruce Simcox** · 01-16-2014, 07:57 PM

Hi Tom......

......http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=meybauer

**Norm F** · 01-16-2014, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by Bruce Simcox View Post

......http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=meybauer

Interesting, it seems that several of these Godet crosses with Meybauer screwbacks have been posted in the Imperial forum:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=707651

Not sure what that means but I believe Godet would have been physically close by to Meybauer (and of course never made combat badges as far as we know).

Best regards,
---Norm

**Andreas Klein** · 01-17-2014, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by Norm F View Post

... (and of course never made combat badges as far as we know).

Best regards,
---Norm

Hi Norm,

the photo of Godet's shop window in Berlin shows an IAB, so i think to say that Godet never made combat badges is so far a pure assumption.

Attached Files

godet.jpg (90.8 KB, 171 views)

**Nordmark** · 01-17-2014, 05:27 AM

Hello guys,

that is a very intersting picture Andreas. One question (I don´t know if this picture was discussed previously), could this be a Panzer assault badge?

Regards,

Daniel

Attached Files

godet.jpg (128.6 KB, 164 views)

**Andreas Klein** · 01-17-2014, 05:35 AM

Agreed Daniel ... that this could be a PAB was my first thought when i saw it but due to the fact that in opposit to the IAB it isn't 100% visible i didn't mentioned it.

I also had a mad thought:

Godet is known for extraordinary pieces and i think Patrick's superb PAB coming with a unusal screwback setup deserves the attribut "extraordinary".

**Antonio Scapini** · 01-17-2014, 06:32 AM

Isn't it possible that Godet bought them from another maker?
How we can be sure Godet produced them?

**BassD** · 01-17-2014, 07:43 AM

So we can not say that Godet produce the IAB, but it could be. Because we have no proof... Maybe they like IABs and whant so show them... we have no proof, but it could be...

sorry for my sarcasm...

Was Godet able to make IABs?
Yes

Is it realistic that the other badges in the display are made from Godet?
Yes

Is there any piece of information that Godet bought from ohter?
No

Had Godet the knowledge, the maschine and the manpower to produce IABs? Yes

**Andreas Klein** · 01-17-2014, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Nordmark View Post

One question (I don´t know if this picture was discussed previously), could this be a Panzer assault badge?

Frank Heukemes wrote the following in 2006 about the picture which i attach:

I know of an L/50 in a box marked Daisy PAB I had the honour to photograph in a collection in the US. The badge is original and the mark has been on there forever (finish goes over mark). It will be featured in my next book. Not as THE Godet PAB (the Daisies are not necessarily Godet made badges although it could theoretically be possible), but as an original badge in the "unusual badges" section. Unusual simply because of the mark.

Attached Files

smDSCF0049.jpg (103.5 KB, 159 views)

**Thomas Durante** · 01-17-2014, 10:34 AM

Hi guys,

Andreas, do you know what date that picture of the Godet window was taken and from where is it from? I seem to remember that it was shown in Scwherten und Spaten, but not sure if this is right or when it was featured.

Thanks

Tom

**Andreas Klein** · 01-17-2014, 10:37 AM

Hi Tom,

the shop was pictured in "Uniformenmarkt" and made directly in Berlin. I had only the cut out picture in my files so that i can't say anything about the date. I will have a look at the weekend.

**Thomas Durante** · 01-17-2014, 10:51 AM

Thanks Andreas, that narrows it down and I think it was from 1941. I will look tonight when I get home from work and see what we can find.

Thanks

Tom

**Thomas Durante** · 01-17-2014, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by Bruce Simcox View Post

......http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=meybauer

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the link, much appreciated. I came upon that same thread in my own search, as well as a few others.....all with similar "Godet" connections using the Meybauer DRGM screwback. But when you read these threads, you can see there is no consensus at all that these are Godet products. Some say they are actually Meybauer products made for Godet. So at a minimum, I think Basti's comment here is incorrect:

Originally posted by BassD View Post

Is there any piece of information that Godet bought from ohter?
No

Basti, if you follow any of the discussions in the Crosses forum, I think you will find quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Godet not only did buy from other companies, but that they didn't make much of anything themselves. Here is an excellent thread on the subject:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...det+Zimmermann

Here are a few relevant snippets from that thread:

"When we look on the EK1 Sector, we all know that Godet didn't produced any of the marked L/50 1939 EK1" Posted by 5tefan

I don't doubt this stuff comes from that lot, and that Zimmermann supplied Gebr. Godet with pre-marked EK2s, EK1s, RKs, and even some other orders and decorations that Godet is famous for "making" during the Third Reich, such as Red Cross decorations and German Eagle Orders. Posted by streptile

In my view it is possible, even probable, that Zimmermann manufactured both types of oakleaves for Godet. In fact, the L/50 and the 21 marks are simply slightly altered versions of Zimmermann's L/52 and 20 marks. Posted by streptile

..although Gebr. Godet didn't mark Imperial orders as reliably as did J. Godet. In part I think this is because they bought many of their wares from others. Mostly they sold unmarked orders in Gebr. Godet marked cases. Posted by streptile

in my opinion Godet's traditional 21 and L/50 marks were done with Zimmermann stamps, and everything so-marked (including EK2, EK1, RK and its higher grades, DAO, Red Cross decorations, etc.) is probably made by Zimmermann and retailed by Gebr. Godet. Posted by streptile

5tefan and streptile are two of the most respected cross collectors in the hobby today, so needless to say they know what they are talking about.

Their opinions are supported by the items allegedly from the Zimmermann factory. An example of this is the "21" marked Godet Oaks & Swords; suggesting that they were produced and stamped with Godet's number before leaving the Zimmermann factory.

Tom

Attached Files

**Thomas Durante** · 01-17-2014, 10:47 PM

Further evidence of Godet buying from others is in the style of stamps used on their EK1s. The L/50 stamp differs, depending on which company made the EK for Godet. Steptile put this great compare together that showcases this perfectly and states the following:

Gebr. Godet commissioned a lot of stuff from other makers, and each manufacturer stamped with Godet's number. Thus, a "Godet" L/50 EK1 made by Zimmermann has a stamp that looks like L/52, while a "Godet" L/50 EK1 made by Mayer has a stamp that looks like L/18:

Tom

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Snap_2010_05_30%2022_21_42_002.jpg (98.7 KB, 116 views)

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