Help with Police Badge

[Greg Kubasek]

I was wondering last night why this tag seemed so familiar and it hit me when I woke up this morning that I saw one of these at a militaria dealer here in Calgary. I think I will take a trip and pick it up (if it's not too expensive, as the dealers here tend to charge far too much) and we could compare it to yours.

I'll let you know how I turn out.

Greg

[John T]

I was wondering last night why this tag seemed so familiar and it hit me when I woke up this morning that I saw one of these at a militaria dealer here in Calgary. I think I will take a trip and pick it up (if it's not too expensive, as the dealers here tend to charge far too much) and we could compare it to yours.

I'll let you know how I turn out.

Greg

Hi Greg:

Let me know the outcome...and if the tag has the same city name and what number is on that tag.

John

[Gerd Becker]

Thank you Greg, Gerd, Frank and Robin for your responses. I read up a bit on ID discs last night in Don Bible's book and he said that Prussia was one of the states of Germany that used Police ID Discs early on. From what I read I found that this city named on the disc is in Prussia. I could not however find a photo of a simliar ID Disc.

Frank: Why do you feel the piece is post 1918 and pre Third Reich? ..ie is there anything in the wording or design that would lead you to date it to that era? Thanks, John

Its the eagle, that makes it a Weimar era piece. Make a search in Imperial for Weimar Lifesaving medal for example and you will see, the eagle is exactly the same.

best,
Gerd

[SCHUPO]

Gents,

This disc proports to be a Warrant Disc from the time of the Weimar Republic. I have never seen one like it, but it has some very big red flags. First, it indicates it is for a commissioned Police Officer in civilian clothing from the town stamped on the front. These were not utilized by civilian police employees who only had paper "house passes" issued as an Ausweiss. But, it is stamped with a huge #2 on the reverse and such a low numbered disc should be silver in color instead of bronze. Please see Bible's books. The die stamped 2 is also too large for the stamping area, which should be between the dotted line and the wording. The 2 intrudes into the wording. Also, the hole for the chain is well off center and the wording could not be read correctly if it was displayed in this manner. Reproductions of these Dienstmarken are made currently in Germany and Poland and you can buy various ones on ebay on any given day. IMHO, this is a poor copy. I hope this helps.

[John T]

Hi Schupo, that helps...are the copies that are on ebay and made in Germany of the same design as this or are you referring to the copies shown in Bible's book?

I notice that on authentic Prussan Police Discs that Don Bible shows in his book the punched circle is also off center when looked at from both the front and back so I am not sure if that alone could be a factor in dismissing an item.

[SCHUPO]

John,

I have seen a lot of different copies of these Warrant Discs of all types...from Imperial ones to fake DDR discs. I have not seen a disc (original or copy) like the one you show. That certainly does not mean that they did not exist. You are correct that some of the original Prussian discs that Bible shows do indeed have the hole slightly out of kilter. It does make it appear that the front die and the back die were out of alignment when this disc was made (I am assuming it is die stamped but the same comment applies to casting). This alone does not condem the piece, but it is a red flag, if you get my meaning. Another red flag for me is the town designation. If you will look at the oval Prussian discs, you will notice that the town designation is either a part of the die stamp or is separately die stamped into the metal disc. All those shown by Bible are done in Fraktur lettering and the one you show is simply done with all Latin capital letters, which would be incorrect grammer at the least. We discussed the color of the disc in relation to the number. The next red flag is the huge die stamped number 2 on the back. You will not find anything like that in Bible's references, nor have I ever seen anything like it that was correct. The number should be much smaller, be of an entirely different die stamp style, and should not be placed where it is placed. Everything that is stamped into the disc simply appears incorrect to me from the photos.

Sorry, but the disc does not look like what I would expect of an original Warrant Disc.

[Frank Heukemes]

Sorry to keep commenting on this without any knowledge about police ID discs, but maybe my comments from a simple "use of the German language" perspective might also help: A city name written in Latin letters and all in capitals (as on this disc) would be perfectly fine grammarwise, while a name written in all capitals using a Gothic font would certainly be very incorrect.

[NORE]

Just to add,the clerks and servants are called Angestellte im öffentlichen Dienst.