Help please for a complete dunce German Egle

[stevefrance64]

Hi

My first post, what a great site
I have only a couple of WW11 items, I have owned this Eagle for over 40 years and now at long last now tried to find out what it represents. It appears to be die punched copper with worn silver plating 9.5 cm wide

Where and on what item of uniform would this have been worn. Would it have been Naval or Military an officer or junior rank

Please excuse my ignorance





Thank you Steve

[Aiceman]

Hi Steve!
Welcome in the Forum!
Photos need for best opinions,If you have,show to us. (you need become association member to upload)
I think this is the good place for you.

[stevefrance64]

Its sad but you will not let me post pictures I have only two items obviously of no interest to your site So I will try elsewhere best wishes in your collections/ studies Steve

PS Just found a way if your interested


http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/...0017Medium.jpg

http://s1257.photobucket.com/user/st...edium.jpg.html

http://s1257.photobucket.com/user/st...edium.jpg.html

[Nordmark]

Hello Steve,


it looks like a breast eagle, that was worn on the Wehrmacht/Heer summer tunic. It is a rather common piece, but still a very nice collectible to have in the collection.


Regards,


Daniel

[stevefrance64]

Thank you Daniel for your help I will look up your descriptions I have always wondered what significance it had

Steve

[Jean-Claude]

Bonsoir Steve, bienvenue sur le Forum WAF

Your photobucket pictures are small and fuzzy but the design and the method of "crimping" the hardware (hinge, catch and lower clasp) is typical for this (yet unknown) maker. Daniel is right, a nice original Heere/KM Beamte Officer summer uniform eagle of a common design probably made of Cupal (but it also exists in tombac) but still one of my favorite birds. Yours is missing the lower clasp. I've attached pictures of my gold & silver set and reverse shot of the silver version for you to compare the details

Salut

JC

[Jean-Claude]

Sorry, duplicate message

[stevefrance64]

Thank you Jean-Claude

I have not heard of the two alloys I looked them up very interesting. I am of the opinion its copper/aluminium, the reason being, I tried to replate it chemically with Silver nitrate and later Silver chloride/tartaric acid ( I use them when resilvering old clock faces of brass or copper) to no avail. There is a tiny mark on my pin close to the bracket roughly a diamond cut diagonally but it may just be a plier mark

Can you tell me the function of the lower clasp missing on my Eagle

Merci mille fois

Steve

[Jean-Claude]

Bonjour Steve

Yes, I was almost sure yours was cupal (copper coated aluminum that is then silver or gold plated as requided) like mine are but this maker also produced an earlier version in tombac which is heavier and uses a slightly different mounting system (welded fixtures instead of crimped) with a beautiful fire gilded finish . I attached a picture of the fire gilded early tombac type compared to the later gold cupal version shown in my last post.

These birds were attached to the uniform by tailored loops (like medals) so the eagle could be easily removed when the uniform needed to be cleaned. A lot of these eagles have a lower clasp to prevent the eagle from flopping on the uniform however a number of variants didnt have the lower clip on earlier versions or never had one. Most Luftwaffe "summer eagles" dont have a lower clasp

No expert in chemistry and its your bird so you are free to do what you want to it but I beleive most collectors will agree with me that you should not mess around, clean, polish or refinish the items in your collection . Not only does this remove the original patina/age which is an integral part of the piece's history but it may make it a lot more difficult to sell the piece later as a lot of collectors wont touch refinished, repaired or otherwise "enhanced" pieces. In this particular case the eagle (when new) not only had a thin silver(?) plating applied but it also had a frosted white finish with polished highlights that has probably worn and toned over the years which will probably lost or damaged if exposed to harsh chemicals. I have a few minty looking ones that I was lucky enough to find over the years but most of my eagles also show wear, age, dirt and patina like yours and I find those just as attractive as the minty ones

Salut

JC

[stevefrance64]

Thanks again Jean-Claude

I'll leave be, although gilding sounds terrific, I have the mercury plus gold and have processed small clock pieces in the past. The crimping you mentioned earlier was the best process of attachment on this alloy as soft or silver solder/ brazing would be difficult due to the aluminium oxide surface


Kind Regards


an Old English Gunner on the Spanish/French border

Steve Jelf

[Flemming]

As many Pictures tend to disapear from the external hosting sites, I am posting the Pictures of the breat eagle that started this discussion. Then this thread will have the pictures in the future also.

/Flemming

[Flemming]

Last Picture.

/Flemming

PS I hope that stevenfrance do not mind this.