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**Nick Carraway** · 10-09-2013, 10:49 AM

Thanks Dietrich!

Gents we need to look at three things:

1) what badges in the original book are fakes?
2) what unknown makers have been identified?
3) what new badges have been discovered?

Please chime in!
Thanks,
Nick

**Wim Vangossum** · 10-09-2013, 11:11 AM

It certainly needs the Deschler GAB now known with a short and long needle pin.

Regards, Wim

Freedom is not for Free

**DAZZA3483** · 10-09-2013, 01:16 PM

Pretty much the same points as made by Nick tbh.Would love to add an updated copy of this fine book to my collection..I understand the original English version has been out of print for some time and I have found it very difficult to obtain a copy.

Welcome news..the very best of luck with this project Dietrich!

**Bruce Simcox** · 10-09-2013, 01:55 PM

Hi Dietrich......

......I am glad that this is being done, and with Frank's approval.

My only request is that all unmarked badges be treated as such. I do not think that supposition based mainly on 'forensics' has a place in the publishing world in naming unmarked badges. I am sure that, as a publisher, you probably know that already, but I choose not to remain silent when the opportunity arises to try and keep the record clear.

However, I do appreciate the implication that 'forensics' does provide at least a idea of who the manufacturer of some unmarked badges may have been. I feel that the rightful area for such assertions is on discussion Forums such as this one.

My $.02

**Dietrich Maerz** · 10-09-2013, 06:28 PM

Bruce,

I could never do it without Frank's approval and I would never do it without his 100% blessing. No need to discuss that.

The forensic allocation of makers to badges is a very hot item. I think that some - especially at the GCA forum - go too far in the "quest" to have everything labeled with a possible maker. As a German I have the possibility to talk to a lot to old collectors, especially in the Pforzheim area and they know that the allocation of a maker based on a pin alone, which was most likely bought by a sub-supplier, is in most cases not correct. Furthermore, we do not have enough examples from a pure statistical point of view to label some of the determinations as safe.

That is the one side!

The other side is that unmarked badges have become named by a combination of forensics, documents, place, provenance and other factors. That needs to be acknowledged and is part of our hobby and research. This needs to be done very carefully and not in a "Hoppla-Hoppla" way like it was done, as an example, at another forum with the (false) proof of a Deumer Knights Cross. That only serves to feed certain egos and also to drive the price up. The combination of seller and "name finder" is always kind of fishy and gives much opening to ridicule.

We will be very careful and my opinion is that one needs to mention the more deeper and thouroughly reserached forensic evidence regarding maker allocation, since we need to allow the reader to make up his mind. We are far from knowing everything and there is no need to pretend that we do. The most important thing is that the reader understands how a determination was made. I think what John Robinson and Norm Franke did in the Kriegsmarine Vol. III sets the standard for that.

When the German version of Frank's book came out in 2009 a few add-on's were made by Frank. The reaction form Mr. deBock at GCA was this: "To be honest the entire book is a big disappointment and a bit of a disgrace to our hobby and what we are trying to accomplish."

In the light of this harsh critique we will strive to avoid any disappointments and we will try not to disgrace the hobby too much.

It will be a very valuable, balanced, and honest collector book, just like the original addition. I promiss that!

Dietrich

**Bruce Simcox** · 10-09-2013, 07:04 PM

Hi Dietrich......

......

It will be a very valuable, balanced, and honest collector book, just like the original addition. I promiss that!

Dietrich

Looking forward to it!

**Graeme** · 10-10-2013, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post

Bruce,

When the German version of Frank's book came out in 2009 a few add-on's were made by Frank. The reaction form Mr. deBock at GCA was this: "To be honest the entire book is a big disappointment and a bit of a disgrace to our hobby and what we are trying to accomplish."

Dietrich

Hi Dietrich

If that was what he said, he has never changed his personality. He is still speaking for others when he should not. And you can still see that he never got over falling out with Frank. A very strange situation, seeing that he used to be Franks "apprentice".

regards
Graeme

**Graeme** · 10-10-2013, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Nick Carraway View Post

Thanks Dietrich!

Gents we need to look at three things:

1) what badges in the original book are fakes?
2) what unknown makers have been identified?
3) what new badges have been discovered?

Please chime in!
Thanks,
Nick

Hi Nick

Cross referencing of the old book to the Gab Originals Gallery we set up over here is a good start. Several types in the gallery have turned up with variant set ups. These would be nice to have in a new book. A lot of the badges in the gallery also have the name of the collection they were in at least at one point, so tracking down good pics should be quite easy, and I will have them without the watermark, if you struggle to find them.

In the original book, in a few cases only one example of a set up was shown and the other set up was just mentioned, for example for a particular badge, it may have shown a circular catch plate and mentioned that examples had been found with rectangular catch plates. If possible it would be nice to see all variations, if thought to be factory manufactured.

cheers
Graeme

**JJS** · 10-14-2013, 07:41 PM

New book

Hi Dietrich
When Frank's book was first published, it inspired me to begin to collect all the GAB types. That collection is now vast with over 50 badges. Frank's book, while imperfect, was a landmark and the first of its kind. I look forward to your new edition, and will be happy to contribute whatever information I can that might be helpful.
Best regards,
--JJS

**AndyC** · 10-15-2013, 07:38 AM

Well I am going to buy the "new" one when it´s going to be available.

Andy

**Graeme** · 10-15-2013, 07:43 AM

Hi Nick

I agree we should keep to the subject from now on, but I think in fairness the off topic comments were prompted by one of the comments from the thread starter

Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post

This is why I have hooked up with Nick and some other collector to get as much information as possible to update and expand the initial book for the benefit of the collectors for years to come.

Your help is greatly appreciated!

Originally posted by Nick Carraway View Post

Thanks Dietrich!

Gents we need to look at three things:

1) what badges in the original book are fakes?
2) what unknown makers have been identified?
3) what new badges have been discovered?

Please chime in!
Thanks,
Nick

Nick

From the two quotes above, it sounds like you are already collecting info outside of this thread. So that we do not duplicate effort and time in this thread, do you think it would be a good idea to post any new info in this thread that you already have? Then people can add to it and if necessary discuss.

And any ideas or comments that people do add to this thread, it would be nice to get your thoughts on as the thread progresses, so we know if they were worthwhile or needed etc.

Good luck in this revamp

regards
Graeme

**Graeme** · 10-15-2013, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by AndyC View Post

Well I am going to buy the "new" one when it´s going to be available.

Andy

Numero uno edition for you Andy

Nick/Dietrich

I have not checked out the German version, so am not familiar with the layout.

From a layout point of view, it would be nice if the pics of the badges could be much bigger than in the "original" format.

Franks book had the obv and reverse of a badge on the same page. I like the style and format of the badges in the flak book, a page for the obverse and a page for the reverse. Imo the details are much easier to see and would make better viewing.

Have you decided on the layout yet?

regards
Graeme

**Thomas Durante** · 10-15-2013, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post

In the light of this harsh critique we will strive to avoid any disappointments and we will try not to disgrace the hobby too much.

With Dietrich at the helm of this new one, I am sure it will be done right and make all collectors happy with the nomenclature that will be used to identify all the makers. Good luck with this endeavor guys, looking forward to it.

Tom

**Ypern** · 08-29-2016, 07:13 AM

Hi,
I have just returned to collecting ww2 German items after a 20 year break. Would love to get a copy of the book when it is published. Just bought the ones about IAB and Krim Shield and have found them very helpful. Certainly feeling a lot more confident about beginning to buy badges again. Is this book due for publication, yet? or is it still at the research stage?
Many thanks.

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