Awarded pieces as opposed to LDO examples

[JAndrew]

It is an interesting topic that Chet brings up and when I was done reading all the prior posts I have sat in front of my computer screen trying to put into words the feeling or sense I get from these things we collect so I hope I can convey what I feel about this topic with my limited skills at prose.

I think there is an emotional overlay to how one reacts to these various pieces, whether an "awarded" piece or a "purchased" piece. To me the important thing is not the from where it was obtained - an award ceremony or a shop - but the sourcefrom which it was obtained - was it from a soldier who had earned it or from a box of left overs.

As an example, my uncle was in the ETO and after had medals that were full size and pinned on his chest during parade formation, miniatures he purchased
to wear on dress occasions, medals he did not obtain until after the war that he was eligable to wear and a set of extras so that he framed one set and had another to wear. To me those all have equal value because they all belonged to the man that had earned them irregardless of the source. Now I could have gone down to a surplus store and purchased all of those same awards in as new condition in pristine cases but there is no way they could ever have the same emotional attachment or value as the one's from my uncle.

When I buy a piece for my collection it is as if I am buying two things: one is the piece of metal in my hand that was given for some type of achievement and if it was an awarded piece, the achievement itself. I know it sounds like I am splitting hairs but I am really not. To me it is two very distinct and different things.

So to me the awarded piece has much more value than the mint, unissued piece and I think that I am probably in the minority with that feeling. To me our hobby is a blend of the numismatists who value the condition of a piece more than the acts that earned it - and they seem to be in the majority - and the militarists who value the deeds beyond the condition of the item. Neither is right or wrong, just different philosophies.

So some people's shelves are full of nice clean cases with perfect specimens while others have shelves with pieces that may be broken or have some tarnish, scratches or rust on them. In the end it is what makes you happy with what you collect.

Just my opinion.
JAndrew

[Norm F]

...I hope I can convey what I feel about this topic with my limited skills at prose.

I think there is an emotional overlay to how one reacts to these various pieces, whether an "awarded" piece or a "purchased" piece. To me the important thing is not the from where it was obtained - an award ceremony or a shop - but the source from which it was obtained - was it from a soldier who had earned it or from a box of left overs.

As an example, my uncle was in the ETO and after had medals that were full size and pinned on his chest during parade formation, miniatures he purchased to wear on dress occasions, medals he did not obtain until after the war that he was eligable to wear and a set of extras so that he framed one set and had another to wear. To me those all have equal value because they all belonged to the man that had earned them irregardless of the source. Now I could have gone down to a surplus store and purchased all of those same awards in as new condition in pristine cases but there is no way they could ever have the same emotional attachment or value as the one's from my uncle.

Hi JAndrew,

Your prose is great.

I fully agree. My Dad lost all his awards at the end of the war but I still have his EK2 award document and ID tag which are more valuable to me than any badge in my collection. I also have a "replacement" Deschler Tombak KVK1 and a Deumer Tombak KVK2, both in heavily worn condition, which my Dad bought in an antique shop in Regensburg on a trip back to Germany during one of his Minesweeper reunions. He was always a penny pincher but it was important enough to him at that time to get a tangible artifact from his service. I continued after his death to collect his other "replacement awards" but those two which he held in his hands are more valuable to me than my rarest or mintiest Minesweeper badge. I also have a couple of Minesweeper badges that belonged to radiomen originally, and since my Dad earned his as a Funkmeister, those two have an additional "je ne sais quoi" in my emotions.

Like you say, it's the experiences and the sense of history that elevate these artifacts above a shiny piece of metal, and an awarded piece is much more evocative than a drawer full of leftovers from a shop.

Having said all that, there's also something fascinating about a hoard find that provides insight into the manufacture and distribution of awards, or Pavel's finding of the wartime accounting books of Adolf Scholze in Gablonz. These things tell a different story about ordinary citizens and businesses in the time, another interesting glimpse into the past. And although numismatists are interested in condition, they also appreciate the subject matter depicted on their coins and the history they represent.

(Nice break from the "is it real" threads!)

Best regards,
---Norm

[Blued]

Interesting comments guys.

I personally like pieces that have been in combat and were there when the soldier was in the thick of it. That has been the history I hoped to preserve through my collection which is why I actually started out collecting soldbuchs.

So for me, LDO may have less of a chance of being in field, however there is nothing to say a soldier didnt buy one on leave and when he returned to the front, it was right there with him. So it's a fine line for me, but I hold them in equal weighting.

[callum]

Personally for me I enjoy the best examples I can find, as to me its a step back to see and admire how they looked when they were awarded. However don't get me wrong, I do enjoy and admire crosses that have 'been there' with that worn look from the field. The engraved crosses such as back of EK1s that surface on the E-stand at times for example, are all pieces that I would love to own. But for now mint examples with the different hardware and marks are the focus

Best,
Callum

[Aiceman]

The main rule to me: I collect period/original badges in good condition.
Yes, the PKA "im felde" awarded badges more interesting than the LDO ones, because here is the "real story", but most of them today can be found by the relic hunters. And these getting worse. The another part of them wich they were taken away from them as a POW, but these are can be seen in collections.(and we hunting for these)
I haven't got a problem with the LDO badges, I know this is made for the soldier,and I know some of my badges never was on the battlefield.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I have been out of German WW2 badge collecting for so long, it seems there is new knowledge that we did not have back then....

A question to clear things up for me.... how would one recognise an LDO Infantry Assault as opposed to an Award one?

Things seem to have changed over the years :-(

[Peter J.]

Chris, an IAB presented was generally labelled with a PK-number, the ones bought in the stores should (at least by regulations) be labelled with a LDO-number. But given what's been said here, un-marked pieces could originate from both a store and the Prädisalkanslei. If I'm not mistaken, even the higher classes of the KC were awarded by the PK from remaining stocks that were consficated due to the ban of selling them in the stores after 1941 (please correct me if I'm wrong about the latter).

cheers
Peter

[Norm F]

A question to clear things up for me.... how would one recognise an LDO Infantry Assault as opposed to an Award one?

Hasn't changed much, but not quite as Peter suggested. Combat badges like the IAB, etc., unlike the higher orders, did not require PK numbers. So an unmarked badge could be either an award piece or a private purchase piece (you can't tell) but an LDO number stamped badge was definitely intended (and approved) for the private market.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Chris Boonzaier]

Chris, an IAB presented was generally labelled with a PK-number, the ones bought in the stores should (at least by regulations) be labelled with a LDO-number. But given what's been said here, un-marked pieces could originate from both a store and the Prädisalkanslei.

r

Hi,

Thats where I was a bit confused... I remember only a fraction having either and most having the maker name... which I assume could be either...

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hasn't changed much, but not quite as Peter suggested. Combat badges like the IAB, etc., unlike the higher orders, did not require PK numbers. So an unmarked badge could be either an award piece or a private purchase piece (you can't tell) but an LDO number stamped badge was definitely intended (and approved) for the private market.

Best regards,
---Norm

Hi,

OK, I am a bit relieved, reading through the first page of posts i thought the world had made a quantam leap in knowledege and I had missed the jump :-)