Awarded pieces as opposed to LDO examples

[Chet Sowersby]

This is a question that has always intrested me. How many collectors feel that LDO examples are equal to awarded pieces? To me anyone could walk into a LDO shop with a plausible story and buy an award. Some LDO awards are very scare but does that make them anymore desirable than a piece that was awarded? In the strictest of defintions LDO pieces are copies. Though not the "jewellers copies" that we as collectors are so wary of but copies all the same. I avoid them for this reason and the fact that they were not "awarded" I am very intrested to hear my fellow collectors take on this.

Chet

[Ludwig]

"...with a plausible story..." I strongly doubt that. Excuse me! Award citation or Soldbuch entry. Vielen Dank, Herr Unteroffizier!
I wouldn´t mind an LDO award. An L/12 marked Knight´s cross for example!

[Peter J.]

Chet, it makes no difference to me. The lack of an LDO number isn't an axiom for an awarded piece. There are even pieces I would consider harder to find with the LDO number, i.g. the DAO which had no market in Germany.

cheers
Peter

[schwelch]

Hello Chet,

I have to agree with Ludwig. As I know it was not that easy to buy an award in a LDO shop. You had to have as Ludwig already wrote an award citation or a Soldbuch entry.
In general I don't care a lot if they are maker marked, LDO marked or unmarked, but as you know I'm an IAB collector and most of the LDO marked IABs are very rare. That's the reason why I'm always happy if I get a new L/xx marked IAB.

Best regards
Sven

[Chet Sowersby]

Ludwig, you are excused!

Peter, I understand exactly what you say. However, what about a numbered badge as opposed to an unmaked badge? Does an un-numbered badge equal a LDO example?

Fellow collectors, I am not putting down what you feel is approiate for your collections but what might be conisiderd a copy (in the strickest of deffinitions).

I thought the LDO examples were not awarded in the field. They were bought in stores? Yes, no?

Chet

[fischer]

Hi Chet

For me, the badge whether field issued or purchased from an LDO outlet, is of little relevance...the deed to obtain the award is where the value and meaning is held.

The most common explanation for the LDO examples is the L/numbered variants were made for retail sales and sold in stores as replacements for broken or lost examples, for a dress uniform, etc.
But, awards that did not have an LDO number were also sold in the LDO outlets. For example, Souval IAB's with the small lettered RS mm have been found contained in LDO marked tan zellstoff packets.

Best Regards, fischer

[Chet Sowersby]

Don,
I agree with what you say about soldiers being able to replace awards lost or damaged. Why not? they should be able to replace their awards.

My question is still this... How many of us value a LDO award above a PKA numbered awarded example?

Simply put, is a badge given in the field equal to a badge one could walk into a store and buy?

There is no correct answere here. I only ask for collectors imput as to what they feel comfortable with.

Chet

[fischer]

Hi Chet

I see how my opinion could misinterpreted.

As a collector, I do not favor one over the other; I collect all the different IAB's because of differences in design, materials, hardware set ups, silver or bronze, MM, LDO or PK number, etc. any and all variations.

Do I feel the LDO examples are a type of copy compared to the field award because it was purchased at a store? No, I don't...In my collector mind they are just another variation of Infantry Assault Badge.

That said, I do value certain examples over others due to condition, degree of difficulty to obtain but not store purchase verses field award.

Best Regards, fischer

[Chet Sowersby]

Don,
That is exactly the type of feedback I am looking for. As I said, there is no correct answer. I am just seeking what collectors feel comfortable with in their collections. To the the point, is a LDO badge just as valuable as a badge that is awared in the field as opposed to one bought that in a store?

Chet

[WEISNER]

I believe many soldiers purchased LDO examples for combat wear safely tucking the awarded badge away at home or using it on his dress uniform.

using EKI's as an example, there were IMO no differences in quality between PKZ and LDO examples. some of my favorite EKI's are LDO examples, well worn and have great patina!

Kevin

[muzrub]

I prefer anything awarded or made in the field. A trenchart ring, a field repaired Iron cross or Assault badge, anything touched by the hands of the men who dug the trenches or who fought in the tanks or the planes high above.
That said, I'll take either store or field if the price is right.

Cheers,

Jamie.

[Flemming]

You diffenrentiate between an LDO Award and a "awarded piece", then where would you put the unmarked examples?
Would they be something like a "grey area" in your Collection?
Because, as they are unmarked, you can't see if they were sold in a LDO retail shop, or awarded "im felde".

My personal opinion is that, that I do not consider LDO as a copy, or anything less then non LDO Award.

/Flemming

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Chet,

very interesting question

But i would not use theword copy in it because the LDO pieces were official pieces too and because of the fact that you could only buy with your award document the have for me the same level as the award piece.

[Glenn66]

I don't care either way as long as the piece is marked somehow. To me it adds a little extra to the story of the piece to be able to identify its manufacturer by a marking. This is in contrast to having to use a loupe to identify the subtleties that an unmarked piece has to rely on for identification.

[Norm F]

As a collector, I do not favor one over the other; I collect all the different IAB's because of differences in design, materials, hardware set ups, silver or bronze, MM, LDO or PK number, etc. any and all variations.

That said, I do value certain examples over others due to condition, degree of difficulty to obtain but not store purchase versus field award.

Best Regards, fischer

Hi Chet,

Interesting thread!

Personally, I agree with Don. All the variations, marked and unmarked, have equal value to me in my collection as they all tell a different story and rarity also plays a role.

But in terms of the meaning of the award, I do feel that there's something special about an award that is handed to a soldier in the field with an award certificate. Of course, most often we can't know that story but when we do, that's a special piece of personal history and more meaningful than the LDO marked "spare".

Imagine winning a sports tournament and standing up there at the ceremony with your teammates while the official places a medal around your neck, and then imagine instead getting a letter that your team qualified for an award and to go order yourself a copy in a designated trophy store. I think there's a psychological and historical difference between those situations.

When I first starting collecting Minesweepers, I only wanted to get early wartime Tombak official award pieces since that was when my Dad qualified for his award, giving them a more personal historical significance, but as I became a Minesweeper badge "specialist" studying their manufacture and the history of the firms involved, I became equally interested in all variants.

Best regards,
---Norm