Cut-out GAB, BWS GAB? and more

[Varsity]

Hello Guy's,

Today I found some badges, including these 4 IAB/GAB's.
One GAB is a cut-out example which looks really nice.

Who made the tombac hollow IAB?

But there is one badge which I've never seen or heard of before.
BSW didn't made GAB's I believe?, anyway, this is BSW marked.
Is this a fake? quality is amazing. I've never seen it in fake as well......

Thanks, Jim

[Varsity]

.... close up

[Panzercracker]

The GAB marked BSW is a fake IMO. No such animal exists with that finish or marking, but is based on S&Ls design. The hollow IAB is a steel issue "Heubach" design. The zinc based solid piece is by RK, and I'm not 100% on the "cut-out" GAB -as there are fakes with the flat catch. Maybe a better shot of the "cut-out" might reveal more? But,,, lookin' closer at the cut-out "as I see it", I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feelin' for it at all....

--Rgds, Ken

[petopoint]

Ditto

Ditto, Ball Hinged GAB is of the more abundant Zinkers around. BSW is reproduction, Hollow GAB is not of the Hymenn type but still heavily reproduced. Better pics of this and other IAB would help.

[Panzercracker]

Actually, the "Hymenn" isn't a Hymmen --nor is it a Reif/Meyer either...

--Rgds, Ken

Ditto, Ball Hinged GAB is of the more abundant Zinkers around. BSW is reproduction, Hollow GAB is not of the Hymenn type but still heavily reproduced. Better pics of this and other IAB would help.

[Varsity]

Thanks both. So the BSW is fake as expected...

More photos here of the IAB and cut-out GAB.
I believed both of these to be good ones.

[Varsity]

And most important, the rear

[Panzercracker]

I took another good long look at your hollow GAB, and, there's something about it that just doesn't "feel" right. It's not the Y-fake, but there are no file imperfections inside that "cut-out". Where there should be evidence of "filing", there is "finish". Maybe, there's a new Stagemaier out there? Tom would know. The IAB, again, is a good steel piece.

--Rgds, Ken

[Hans Kondor]

The IAB is a good SchuCo.
The bsw marked GAB is IMO a postwar S&L. The Karneth GAB is good.
The hollow GAB looks like a tombak Mayer, but I have never seen this type with cut out swastika, the cut out looks pretty bad, maybe it was done by the soldier, but the hingle looks also not right to this variant.

[Varsity]

Thanks both.

Here more from the cut-out example.
I think it's originally done, see this better photo of the front

[Panzercracker]

I'm still not keen with it at all. If a soldier "filed" that out, you wouldn't see a finish on the inner arms, where the filing took place. IMO, the base metal looks "off" too. I also agree with Hans, that the "hingle" is not an attribute of a buntmetall F&R/Mayer. We'll see what Tom says, as he's got a good handle on the latest "Stag" fakes etc.

--Rgds, Ken

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

A very interesting Schickle GAB you have found here Varsity. I can't really fault it, the obverse design looks spot on, with what looks like correct finish and believable wear IMO. The reverse is interesting, we know the setup from zinc BH Mayer badges. I don't recally seeing this setup on a Schickle badge before, so that could be a red flag. And I have never seen cutouts like this in the swastika on a Schickle. If it were a Petz and Lorenz I wouldn't be surprised, but to see it on a Schickle is a little out of place. The sloppy way they were done also doesn't seem in line with an early badge like this. As mentioned, could have been done by the recipient, but the finish in that area looks perfect, so I would be skeptical of this answer.

The finish on the entire badge looks almost too perfect, so possibly an original that has been refinished? Hard to be sure, but the lack of patina could point to this. If the price was right I would probably pick this one up, more for a study piece. I don't think it is a fake, but probably messed with IMO.

I agree with the rest of the badges; the IAB & RK GAB are good but the GAB is a postwar S&L fake (typically called the monster GAB, some believe they are wartime but I think they are postwar S&Ls).

Tom

[Norm F]

A very interesting Schickle GAB you have found here Varsity. I can't really fault it, the obverse design looks spot on, with what looks like correct finish and believable wear IMO. The reverse is interesting, we know the setup from zinc BH Mayer badges. I don't recally seeing this setup on a Schickle badge before, so that could be a red flag.

Hi Tom,

What aspect of the setup on that GAB are you referring to? Hard to tell from the photos but isn't that the typical rounded stamped sheet metal Schickle catch like on these Minesweepers?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Varsity]

Hi,

Thanks both. The catch matches the catch Norm is showing in his post.
There is patina and wear on the badge. I will try and take some good outside pictures tomorrow in daylight.

[Panzercracker]

This thread got my eye trained on the differences between Schickle, Mayer and P&L, which are similar, but different nonetheless. I agree with Tom -that it's a Schickle based design. However, we have encountered really good copies in the hollowback GAB and PAB in the past. Tom's theory on it being refinished does make sense, but why for the cut-out and the odd ball hinge plate? Maybe I'm being over cautious, but perhaps a 3/4 view of the hinge from the top would determine if it's cast as part of the badge? Also, another oddity, is the excess solder at the catch. I don't know, I'm still on the fence...

--Rgds, Ken