Unmarked PAB.

[KJV]

Hi guys,
any ideas on who the maker of this badge is?
Regards,
Kevin

[KJV]

Back

[Philippe DB]

Hi Kenvin,


That's a strange one. Based upon the design in combination with the reverse scoop out this could only be Wernstein. However the early buntmetall set-up on these Wernstein badges isn't like anything I have ever seen before. Based upon this earlier setup I also find it very strange that the badge lost 98% of it's finish not something that normally happens even on very late Wernsteins.

Could you provide us with some measurements on this badge.

KR
Philippe

[KJV]

Hi Philippe,

My calipers are a little beat but, it looks like 42X60 to throw you ever more, it looks like it has a die flaw on back, I believe like a Zimmermann? Here is a better photo of hinge and clasp also flaw.
regards,
Kevin

[KJV]

Flaw

[Philippe DB]

Hi Kevin,


I must admit that I have absolutely no clue what this is.

The Zimmermann die flaw
The Wernstein obverse design
The Wernstein Scoop out
The Wurster reverse hardware

To be honest I wouldn't touch it but based upon what I'm seeing that's just a gut feeling and nothing more. This badge combines so many different features that don't belong together that I really don't understand what I'm looking at.

KR
Philippe

PS: Is that a Wurster or a Zimmermann lying next to the other PAB? If you find the time please post some pics of that one too. Thanks in advance.

[Frank Heukemes]

Some of the features of that reverse are VAGUELY there and similar on the Wernstein, but it is is not a real match:

[Frank Heukemes]

It is NOT the Zimmermann die flaw. Look at the Wernstein, there is something there too at that position, but it is just a "corner".

[Philippe DB]

Your of course correct Frank, it's not a Zimmermann die flaw and it's in about the same position as the relief visible on the Wernstein you posted.

Another strange feature when looked upon from the reverse is the completely straight (horizontal) imprint starting under the track on the left running to the other side of the badge. Another thing I can't recall ever to have seen on any other semi hollow PAB.

Could this be somekind of Wernstein test PAB? To me it also looks like it never received any finish.

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

It is indeed a strange one, my gut feeling says rather good than bad though. We will have to learn more about this type. I am sure we will see another one, maybe with a setup that will link it in a better way to a maker. I agree that this setup we see is Wurster-like.

Around the hinge and catch, that should be bronze finish, no?

[Giel VW]

At first sight I would say a Wernstein from the back, than I looked at the other opinions and said oops.
Ps: I really love this topic, it provides very usefull information!

[Don D.]

Around the hinge and catch, that should be bronze finish, no?

I had the same thought Frank. The finish has remained where the solder/flux was applied and know where else.
Don

[Patrick W]

Philippe,

I have a zinc Wernstein with the silver finish gone that shows part of this horizontal line that you pointed out. It doesn't run to the edge of the badge and is only about 1cm long. It runs straight through the maker mark between the W and the dots above. I don't think I could pick it out in a photo but holding the badge in the light it is clearly evident.
It seems to me that every semi hollow Wernstein PAB I see has a slightly different back and I am sure there must be some kind of evolution here.
For me that is an original Wernstein badge and must be early. The assembly I can't explain.


Patrick

[Frank Heukemes]

Ahaha! I found another one of those "mystery Wernsteins" in my database. Check out this badge from member Colorado with another unusual hinge and the EXACT same reverse features as on the badge in question.

Maybe early Wernstein, maybe we are looking at even another maker.

[Frank Heukemes]

.