Numbered Panzer badge

[Justin]

You guys helped me out on the last badge, what about this one? It shows its age and where which I like. But I left my combat badge book at work and im on a 2 week vacation, so I need your opions on it. And thanks again

[nick]

Don't know for sure

Hello Justin.

I'm not sure about this one.
I've learnd a lot from this forum. And I know no that these are very dangerous to collect (fakes)
I've attached one to compare with yours. (I think it a junker)
I'm not sure but I think that the original ones have more detail (looking at the eagle).
The number is also differend, it's more refined (don't you think?)
So In my opininon I say:

Greetings and much succes

[Yuri D.]

Justin,

The detail on this badge is too blurry for my liking. The logs under the tank show little detail. The eagle's head is malformed, the claws have no detail at all. I could be wrong, not ever having seen a GB close-up, but that's my opinion of this badge.

Yuri

[Adrian]

Hi Justin,

"The numbered Panzer badges were all made with exceptional quality"

Sorry Justin, I can`t see much quality in this badge, I`m with Yuri on this,no features on the eagles head and feet, the details on the wreath are poor, no details(bark)on the logs.

Maybe someone with "technical" info ie:
should the rivets be domed?
should the space between the eagles legs and wings be cut out?
can answer the above and give some more details..........?

Best regards,
Adrian

[Justin]

I got the same felling on the detail but didnt want to pass judgement on it with out a closer look plus I havent seen to many Panzer badges close up.

[rkoy]

hi justin

i dont like the 50 its just not right.............. i would pass on this one rodney

[John G]

Alright guys...

Hello to all,
I'm the one selling the badge to Justin after hearing he was looking for one...seems that many have an opinion but not definitive...and that's OK cause the forum allows for each person to voice their opinion.
The scans are pretty harsh and have washed out the detail, so I propose this. I'll send this badge to Justin or to anyone for that matter to verify its authenticity. MY opinion is that it's the real thing....and I'll also state that the majority of pieces out there (including the ones with great detail) are post war models; just because a piece has great detail, doesn't mean it's a pre 45 badge. (OK I'll get off my soapbox now!)
I've had this badge for many years and have only recently decided to part with it, and in no way am I looking to scam Justin.
If I send it to an "expert" and he deems it fake so be it, jokes on me...if it's legit, Justin gets a great, genuine badge. Sound Good?
I'd like to hear some more opinions.

All the best,
John

[nick]

To John

Hello John

I do not agree. The scans are very clear for me.
When I look to the badge and to the other opinions of the members, I can say I'm 90%sure it a fake one.
Look at the one a attached you see very difference.
But I like your proposal.
Greetings Nick

[Rich G]

I'll butt in here and say we can't compare the two badges shown because they are from different makers, ie one is G.B. and the other maybe JFS or unknown because these seem to be always unmarked.

I used to own a '50' GB panzer assault, which I sold to a member of this forum. As I no longer own the badge I feel I cannot post a pic of it (unless the new owner wants to) so here's my thought's on it...

the front looks OK, the only problem I have is with the numbered box, it's border and '50' are base metal grey when they should be brass or the like.

As to the reverse, the edge of the badge should have a rim a long side where the left rivet is, I don't see it here. The G.B. on the reverse of the panzer seems slightly more left and some of the details of the reverse of the eagle impressions are definitely different. These could be down to the conditions under which the badge was stamped.

At the end of the day, scans can show a picture which doesn't reflect the actual subject (jeeze, everytime I see a photo of myself I can scarcely believe its me! ). A lot of the times, these things need to be 'in the hand'. Let's not condemn it out right. Let's get a true experienced collector of the numbered assault badges on the case!
would that collector please make themselves known...

Rich

[nick]

ok guys

Hello back

Here is an original "GB" marked panzer assault badge.
Look for yourself and find the difference.

[nick]

front

The front.
Is very much detailed.
So I don't know, what do you think about that????
Greetings Nick

[John G]

Nice Badge Nick

Nick
I say,Great badge, Nice detail,
I am not even close to being an expert but I'm no novice...

OK, now I'd like to get down to the bottom of this badge...this has nothing to do with selling to Justin any more, I'd just like to get an appraisal of this badge. I have handled GB Tank Badges before and one thing I have learned; there are a lot of differences from badge to badge which I attribute to later runs of the badge as the war progressed.

Look at Tuckers book p.159 of a GB 50...those are the same type of rivets on my badge and look different than Nicks...also the shape of the eagles head is different than Nicks as well as the wing span. Nicks pin is shorter than Tucker's and my own. Some GB's seem to have different mounting plates...I've heard if the mounting plate for the clasp is longer than the number box, then it's fake. Does anyone else have "Die Orden und Ehrenzeichen des Dritten Reiches"by Horst Mandry? Nice picture of a Bronze GB in there, back looks alot like Nick's, but eagle on front looks like mine.
I think the point I'm trying to make is that with these hollow stamped badges there is going to be some variation; just as there are small variation to Infantry assault badges by the same maker...to hold one badge up and say "this is the one badge to which all others are compared" may not fly in this situation.

To Rich, I agree with your assessment of stamping of the badge, but I disagree with the placement...that "rim" should follow around the whole outer rim of the badge. I have it on my badge but it's thinner than Nick's and Tucker's.
By the way, my GB is in the same place as all other observed GB's...the badge just flopped over in the scanner, so it gives the illusion of it being to the left.
Rich, that bit about the box is not true...about it being brass. This box was brass colored at one time, with lots of traces being seen under a jewlers loop. I'm not sure if you meant that, or if you meant it had to be a brass material. If I misunderstood, I aplologize. We may need some more opinions. Also, who are the experts? Please speak up, it would be great to have your opinions and a place I could mail this badge to...(I hesitate to mail overseas but if I have to...)

Thanks to everyone who has logged in so far
John

[Justin]

any one got anything to say about this badge? any one that deals with numbered panzer badges wish to put their opion in.

[Yuri D.]

Even thought I have offered an opinion based on the scans of the badge - I cannot give a definite yes or no to this badge without handling it personally or, seeing a larger and clearer scan. Justin, your decision should be based on the information that you absorb. Part of this information is:

1. What John G. says.
2. What the other forum members say.
3. How you feel based on your experience and "talent" for detecting genuine badges.

If you buy this badge, and it's good, then your "talent" has helped you succeed where others have failed. If you buy this badge and it turns out to be bad, then your "talent" will be improved by the lesson of the situation. Either way, you will win in the long run.

Yuri

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

Except in the hip product !!!!

Which for one of these badges is a costly lesson indeed !!

It 's not a war merit medal here that you can laugh off & throw in the circular file.

I'd be making 100 % certain that it was ok before buying but then i'm poor & living in a country with a bad exchange rate to the the USD