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    #1

    bronze iab

    What do you think about this bronze IAB ?
    Attached Files
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    #2
    It looks like a Weidmann pin setup to me but i dont know if the ever done any hollow IAB


    Andy

    Comment

      #3
      For me its a Original, with Design from F&R. A very rare badge.

      Comment

        #4
        Pin setup is like "Lily Pad" from Wiedman but the design is from F&R and it is really nice original badge IMHO.

        Best Regards,

        Marek

        Comment

          #5
          Hi guys,

          Nice original IAB in great condition.

          These IABs are still quite a bit of a mystery, especially these rare ones with the lillypad hinge. The Obverse design does seem to more match Frank & Reif IABs, but there are still some small differences. These also seem to match the pictures in the Petz & Lorenz catalog, so that could be the maker. But still some are found marked with L18 stamped on the pin, so Mayer is also a player in here.

          Here is another example, from Dan's excellent collection.

          Tom
          Attached Files
          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

          Comment

            #6
            Thanks for explanation Tom! Very useful.

            Best Regards,

            Marek


            Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
            Hi guys,

            Nice original IAB in great condition.

            These IABs are still quite a bit of a mystery, especially these rare ones with the lillypad hinge. The Obverse design does seem to more match Frank & Reif IABs, but there are still some small differences. These also seem to match the pictures in the Petz & Lorenz catalog, so that could be the maker. But still some are found marked with L18 stamped on the pin, so Mayer is also a player in here.

            Here is another example, from Dan's excellent collection.

            Tom

            Comment

              #7
              Hi Marek

              Yours appears to be a very nice example

              And I do not think I have seen one of these with the cutout swas area, like Tom posted. These are great looking badges.

              For me, the most tangible link we have is Frank & Reif. Although there may be small differences, the badges posted here have some very unique design features that are also seen on the marked Frank and Reif solid badges. As well as the overall design being the same.

              I have not seen the Petz and Lorenz catalogue pics, but I would be very wary with such connections, especially if that is the only link. Can someone post the catalogue pic if they have it?
              The danger with links like this is that confusion can set in. Only this week I saw one of these advertised as Petz and Lorenz on a dealer site.


              regards
              Graeme

              Comment

                #8
                Definitely

                Comment

                  #9
                  Hi Graeme,

                  I think Dietrich found the P&L catalog a few years back, which show pics of PAB & IAB and I think Phil made some connections based on the exact leaf configurations of the PAB & IAB. I will look in my files tonight and see what I have, or maybe Dietrich will see this thread and post the catalog page.

                  Tom
                  If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                  New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                  [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                  Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Beautiful badge and interesting informations

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Graeme Sandles View Post
                      Hi Marek

                      Yours appears to be a very nice example

                      And I do not think I have seen one of these with the cutout swas area, like Tom posted. These are great looking badges.

                      For me, the most tangible link we have is Frank & Reif. Although there may be small differences, the badges posted here have some very unique design features that are also seen on the marked Frank and Reif solid badges. As well as the overall design being the same.

                      I have not seen the Petz and Lorenz catalogue pics, but I would be very wary with such connections, especially if that is the only link. Can someone post the catalogue pic if they have it?
                      The danger with links like this is that confusion can set in. Only this week I saw one of these advertised as Petz and Lorenz on a dealer site.


                      regards
                      Graeme

                      Comment

                        #12
                        A beautifull badge and very nice pictures.

                        Tom, you always give the best explanations on these badges.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
                          Hi Graeme,

                          I think Dietrich found the P&L catalog a few years back, which show pics of PAB & IAB and I think Phil made some connections based on the exact leaf configurations of the PAB & IAB. I will look in my files tonight and see what I have, or maybe Dietrich will see this thread and post the catalog page.

                          Tom
                          Hi Tom

                          Thanks for that info. I did a search and found the catalogue you mentioned..

                          Below is the IAB cut from the page.

                          When blown up, not an exact match in my opinion, differences can be seen in several areas, including rifle and talons.
                          IMO it is also not clear if this is a photo.

                          Do you recall any other evidence to make the connection? Maybe there was more than just this catalogue pic.

                          best regards
                          Graeme
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Pity it is not mine Graeme... :-) But thanks for explanation. Interesting discussion. Thanks Tom and Graeme!

                            Best Regards,

                            Marek

                            Originally posted by Graeme Sandles View Post
                            Hi Marek

                            Yours appears to be a very nice example

                            And I do not think I have seen one of these with the cutout swas area, like Tom posted. These are great looking badges.

                            For me, the most tangible link we have is Frank & Reif. Although there may be small differences, the badges posted here have some very unique design features that are also seen on the marked Frank and Reif solid badges. As well as the overall design being the same.

                            I have not seen the Petz and Lorenz catalogue pics, but I would be very wary with such connections, especially if that is the only link. Can someone post the catalogue pic if they have it?
                            The danger with links like this is that confusion can set in. Only this week I saw one of these advertised as Petz and Lorenz on a dealer site.


                            regards
                            Graeme

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi guys,

                              Graeme, that indeed is the IAB from the P&L catalog and was a big part of the connection to that maker. The PAB was also a connection, and both are found with certain hardware that is consistent with other P&L badges.

                              Ofcourse, there is no written confirmation of any of this, just pieces of the puzzle that seem to point more in the direction of P&L rather than Frank & Reif or BH Mayer.......in my opinion ofcourse

                              Tom
                              If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                              New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                              [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                              Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                              Comment

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