Would you?

[Thomas Bendixen]

Would you buy these if they were offered too you on a polish fleamarket for 15$ a piece?

Cheers Thomas

[Thomas Bendixen]

:-)

[mads]

no!

Mads

[Thomas Bendixen]

!

[mads]

What are you getting at here Thomas?
This just sound very fishy to me...or did you get lucky?
Sure looks good if it is a copy....enlighten me please ?

Mads

[Mauser]

Please carry on .....

[Philippe DB]

Hi Thomas,


Altough they look convincing at first glance, they are copies . The maker mark is completely of for this type of maker, these badge are supposed to represent early buntmetall examples but that is not what they are made of.

The oakleaves on the obverse are much to flat, the finish is incorrect and they show very poor outlining when looked upon from the reverse. It's a type of fake I'm not familiar with but I'm confident that these are not the real thing.

By now even in Poland they probably know that the carton box is worth more then $15 if original.

KR
Philippe

[Patrick W]

Shouldn't there be a semi circular line running near the bottom of the reverse?

Patrick

[Philippe DB]

Shouldn't there be a semi circular line running near the bottom of the reverse?

Patrick

Hi Patrick,

Most of the BM Juncker CA's will show the "smile" dieflaw but not the very early once.

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

I am not convinced that these are fakes. I rather think they are good including the boxes.

[John T]

Did you buy the pieces? I think you got lucky, even as fakes they would sell for more than 15 dollars a piece....this leads me to believe they are indeed good and the seller did not know what he had and also Polish fakes are generally very poor in quality.

[junior]

IMO they are good.

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi fellow collectors

Sorry that I teased you a little bit! I belive these too be 100% originals - stone cold mint. I didn´t realize anyone would suspect these! My question were too be understood this way "If you encounter 4 orignials - mint Zerstörebadges in a polish fleamarket at that price you will think - fakes" too make a long story short - most of us gets influenced by irrelevant circumstances evaluating a badge. Not trying too lesson you - this was just meant too be a plesureposting for you to enjoy


I first saw these about 10-15 years ago at a respectful and experienced collector. I am not sure if he offered one too me or not - I didn´t buy one - wich I regret today. His story (I will make further inquiries if needed) was that some of these were found after the liberation 5.may 1945 at the danish naval headquaters in Copenhagen (confisqated by the German occupational forces after 29/8-1943). (Irelevant information - why did i write this )

The badges shown here are from my work (The danish Recistance museum) in Copenhagen. They were given to the museum in 1991. I didn´t look up if there were any story attached too the medals - because i was 100% sure about them. The finnish is perfect - high points polished, deep gold colour. I was told at the collector where I first saw them that i should handle them gently because the lacquer (seethrough paint ) was still on the badges and crackeling ( ). And the same thing is present on these making the details a bit blurred but the badge more shiny. The scratches you can see on the back i think is scrathes in the lacquer.

One last pic I saved for you shows that the fourth one has a black/blued reverse. Some colleague of mine marked it with a sticker (with quality glue) and when I tried too remove it, before taking this picture, it just came off revealing the goldfinish underneath.

I have no interest invested in these badges except the truth and I will investigate further and compare weight etc. maybe sometime next week.

Cheers Thomas

[Thomas Bendixen]

I am not convinced that these are fakes. I rather think they are good including the boxes.

Hi Frank

I belive the boxes too be good. They are, as you can see, simple, made of thick paper clamped (is that the right word) together. Clamps are very rusty.

Cheers Thomas

[Philippe DB]

Hi Thomas,


I guess I was wrong, why didn't you post the reverse you just posted yesterday then I wouldn't have made this mistake

I have to admit that the Polish story probably made me look for things that weren't there and even after posting my reply I kept looking at those badges asking myself where this hobby would evolve to if this were the latest fakes.

What I probably didn't take in to account and what in fact made me conclude that these were copies was the effect the protective crackeling lacquer produced. Sadly enough I'm not used to handling badges in this type of condition and can only compare them with what I know and most of the time that are just honestly worn badges that due to the wear develope a completely different pattina.

On other thing that your badge might have learned me is that in fact there didn't exist original Juncker CA's with the die flaw and a golden reverse finish. The last badge you posted is an exact match (die flaw, small mm) to my example. However my examples as you can see has a golden reverse finish. Now you just wrote that when you tried to pull of the sticker the gold became visible under the protective black laquer which would lead me to believe that maybe mine would also have had it at one time but that it has already faded away long ago.

Anyway I'm certainly happy that I was wrong.

KR
Philippe