Is This A Bronze IAB Or Just Dirty?

[Hans Kondor]

Thank you for the infos Andreas.
The brass layer looks definitely different from a copper layer to me, as far as I know, Juncker used this method on his hollow and solid zinc PABs and hollow GABs.
I don't know any other kind of IAB,GAB,PAB maker which used this method.
These so called slim stalk badges have usually a copper layer, not a brass layer. Of course this still doesn't mean that these badges made by Juncker.
But the fact, that solid zinc Juncker PABs have the same set up as these badges are a good sign IMO.
This kind of hinge was used by many maker but the catch and the pin with that small scratch on the top is not as far as I know.
What is your opinion?

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Andreas, it looks to me that the brass layer is UNDER the silver finish, so in my opinion it cannot be Zapanlack (which was a coating ON TOP of the silver finish to help preserve it).

As far as the connection to Juncker goes, it is pretty conclusive IMO but can understand why others might not agree with it. Perhaps one day we will have more conclusive evidence pointing to Juncker....or another maker, who knows.

Tom

[Andreas Klein]

Thank you for the infos Andreas.
The brass layer looks definitely different from a copper layer to me, as far as I know, Juncker used this method on his hollow and solid zinc PABs and hollow GABs.
I don't know any other kind of IAB,GAB,PAB maker which used this method.
These so called slim stalk badges have usually a copper layer, not a brass layer. Of course this still doesn't mean that these badges made by Juncker.

Hi Hans,

you are right ... the brass layer (yellow) looks different from the copper layer (red) and more badges can be found with a copper layer if you look only at the color

but:

brass is only an alloy with copper in it and can turn during the time from it's yellow color to a red color when the copper part of the alloy comes to the surface. So certain copper layers could be former brass layers with a higher amount of copper in it or with the adging of brass. You can find IABs from FCL with a copper layer aswell and ShuCo too.

But the fact, that solid zinc Juncker PABs have the same set up as these badges are a good sign IMO.
This kind of hinge was used by many maker but the catch and the pin with that small scratch on the top is not as far as I know.
What is your opinion?

Well, it's imo a big assumption to use an unmarked PAB as evidence for a unmarked IAB and Juncker is imo a tricky firm. If you look closer at the IC sector than you can find Juncker crosses which are a match to Wächtler & Lange or Steinhauer & Lück, so we should really ask ourself what Juncker really produced.

The setup (hinge/catch) is imo pure standard and here is the catch on a so called Vienna design PAB:

[Andreas Klein]

Hi guys,

Andreas, it looks to me that the brass layer is UNDER the silver finish, so in my opinion it cannot be Zapanlack (which was a coating ON TOP of the silver finish to help preserve it).

Hi Tom,

i don't think that this is the brass layer you've marked ... imo it looks like teh adged finish. Look at my posted Wild wound badge - we have several different areas aging at one and the same badge.

As far as the connection to Juncker goes, it is pretty conclusive IMO but can understand why others might not agree with it. Perhaps one day we will have more conclusive evidence pointing to Juncker....or another maker, who knows.

Well, at the moment i only see several people playing silent post and speaking of Juncker badges without any explanation, not that much to agree with.

[Hans Kondor]

Well, it's imo a big assumption to use an unmarked PAB as evidence for a unmarked IAB and Juncker is imo a tricky firm. If you look closer at the IC sector than you can find Juncker crosses which are a match to Wächtler & Lange or Steinhauer & Lück, so we should really ask ourself what Juncker really produced.

Well I have never heard about the S&L-Juncker connection about EK's, I know that Juncker used W&L core, but from the frame you can always found out who made that cross Juncker or W&L IMO.

Following your assumption, Juncker IAB,GAB,PABs and many other kriegsmarine badges are always can be found unmarked, so these are all questinable, unknown maker badges in your opinion?

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Hans,

the info about S&L was posted in the iron cross section of the WAF. It seems that Juncker used a wide area of stuff which could be - if no maker marked had been attached - linked to another maker.

Here is an old thread about my "Juncker" Wächtler & Lange cross:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=95165

Following your assumption, Juncker IAB,GAB,PABs and many other kriegsmarine badges are always can be found unmarked, so these are all questinable, unknown maker badges in your opinion?

Yes.

The best example is the SHuCo. IAB which was used by Eduard Hahn and Gottlieb & Wagner of Oberstein aswell.

[Hans Kondor]

Here is an old thread about my "Juncker" Wächtler & Lange cross:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=95165

Hello Andreas,

I checked it, IMO a standard W&L cross.
Anyway here is a nice thread about Juncker variant EKs:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...r+EK2s&page=10

[Andreas Klein]

For the records and to show that a copper layer was a common style for certain makers.

L/51:

[Andreas Klein]

Rss:

[Andreas Klein]

As:

[Andreas Klein]

Maker RS with copper layer: