JFS GAB, Was a concensus ever reached?

[anguspm]

Afternoon All,

I'm probably going to re-open a can of worms here but searching the forum hasn't produced a conclusive answer (Yes, I've read through all the posts but there seems to be very little evidence one way or the other).

Is the standard GAB with JFS markings pre may 1945 or not?

The reason I ask is having obtained one I set about researching/comparing it to others on the forum (as I do with all new badges, helps to compare condition etc). Well rather than being re assured I'm more doubtful than anything else.

Thanks in advance,

Angus

(PS: Item comes with a lifetime guarantee so it'll go back if I still don't feel comfortable with it)

[Den]

Hi Angus, can you post some pics of the gab ?
I've got one myself, posted it some time ago but it wasn't accepted as an original, but I still keep it in my collection, maybe one day they will decide that it is an authentic badge.
Kr. Den

[anguspm]

can you post some pics of the gab ?

Hi Den,

I don't have any photos at the moment but will try to get some posted tomorrow. It's the riveted type which appears in a few of the other threads discussing the badge.

regards,

angus

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi Angus. As far as I know, no conclusions have been reached about this badge.
In my opinion they probably do exist, but nobody has determined for sure what one might look like.

Not to throw more fuel on the fire, but a while ago somebody posted a magazine article that stated that the badge on the left was an authentic badge, and the type we usually encounter on the right was a reproduction. I don't know if that is true, but it sure keeps this controversy interesting.

The key points made in the article were that the authentic JFS badge was not marked and that there was no "indentation" on the inner border where the wing juts out. See the pictures (note that the picture on the left was from a photogragh that had been trimmed, thus the left outer wing-tip is missing.)

Again, not sure "what is what" with these badges but more opinions welcome .

[Den]

Look at this one, grounddug found with several other pieces in a German wood, pics come from a german collector who found it himself with a metaldetector.

Den

[Den]

reverse

[Frank Heukemes]

Here is my input:

I believe the JFS marked GAB to be a reproduction, simply because I have seen it being sold over and over again by more than one known fake peddler. I am not talking about the well known dealers we all frequent, more the ones I see at german shows and on the German part of the internet.

It is interesting to note that the Assmann marked GAB with screwback (which we all know is fake) has exactly the same obverse as the (also fake) JFS GAB. Also interesting that the same people sell BOTH types.

I do not know what to think about these unmarked bedges of the same obverse design but with minimal differences to the reverse as Lorenzo pointed out. It is good to see a grounddug one, some nice evidence but no absolute proof. It could have been theoretically been buried one year ago to make a point. Unlikely but possible.

Here is the Assmann "A" marked screwback fake that uses the exact same obverse details (I do not know whose pics these originally were). Eagle eye and "square" leafs are quite characteristic:

[Frank Heukemes]

reverse

[Frank Heukemes]

with disc

[anguspm]

Pic's as promissed. I can see the similarities that Frank pointed out . Maybe we are getting somewhere with these.

[anguspm]

Kind of a butter knife looking bayonet to my eyes, anyone else see that?

And the reverse:

[Kecon]

Frank

I agree with you. One fake peddler I've known for many years would
always have one or two of these in stock at the shows I attended.
Mixed in with the Floch EK1's, Fake RS&S HSF's, Orth destroyers,
Fake GWL u-boats and the list goes on. For that reason, I've learned
to stay clear of these

BR
Ken