GWL CCC opinions requested

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

I'd like to get other member's opinions on this GWL Close Combat Clasp. The badge appears to be zinc but I am not sure if there is actually any finish remaining. Although it looks silver in the scans, there appears to be an olive bronze colour present on the edges in places. The edges show good shear/trimming marks. The hinge and catch appear to be properly cast. The measurements are 97.0 x 26.6mm, weight 32.5g. The backplate and fluted pin are steel (magnetic). The oakleaf details are excellent and match the few original examples I've seen.

What gets me is that the eagle is quite pitted - I think this just corrosion that may have been previously cleaned off, but may also be casting marks, indicative of a repro. There are traces of white zinc oxide on the inner edge of the oakleaf box (which fluoresce under UV), so I'm inclined to think the former. The pitting is also present on the top edge of the eagle, the opposite (bottom) edge of the central "box" and, to a lesser degree, the oakleaves.

I know GWL CCCs have been discussed in the past but I've searched and can't find the threads. Opinions are appreciated, as are images of other genuine badges.

Regards
Mike K

[Stijn David]

GWL close combat clasp

Hello,


Thanks for showing us this one, i know that GWL produced ccc in both Zinc and Alluminium ( if you gett in contact with Mr. Helmut Weitze he can give more details on what to look for both types , im sure ) .

I have only seen the Allu type live and one thing that was totaly different with this piece was the needle , the allu. pieces have a flat needle ( unlike this one that has a belly ans eems tappered ? ) but if this is a point to look after i cant say because i only have seen the alu type in the flesh ??? , i like the badge in General but is rather strange that the needle has remained so good if the badge in general shows oxidation ? ( would it be possible that this is a replacement needle on this one ? )

Just my opinion and im also curious what other shave to add ?

Greetings,

[Denis]

Hello
I have not my sources of info with me byt as far as I remember, I believe that GWL CCC has not the fluted pin (like the 2nd model U-boat clasp) but rather a plain one (with the coke bottle shape though)
Am I right or not ?
Denis

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Thanks for the response so far. I only have 2 images of GWL CCCs. 1 is in a 1990 special edition of INFO - this (?zinc) clasp appears to have a flat (non-fluted) pin but the image is poor. The other image is in the English version of Militaria Magazine (#23, Jan 96) and this shows a fluted pin, again on what appears to be a zinc clasp.

The pin on my badge does not appear to be a replacement. Like the backplate, the pin is slightly rusty (definitely die-struck as well - good shear marks on the edges). The pitting on the central obverse and central edges of the badge is not present on the reverse, so the corrosion may not have affected the reverse at all. I guess it would depend on how the badge has been stored - the back may have been protected.

Please keep the opinions coming!

Regards
Mike K

[skip]

Hi Mike, I,ve seen some pic´s of GLL that look just like this,if you send me your Email I´ll send you one over.

[mmiller]

Hi Mike,

I have a GWL NKSiS that is strikingly (pun intended) similar to yours. Mine is also a little on the 'pitty' side, but not to the extent of yours. The pin appears exactly the same.

Stijn is correct, however, on the flat-sided pin on the aluminum gold GWL versions. Wish I had one!

Mark

[Bruce Simcox]

Hi Mike.....

.....don't forget to take a good close look at the mm. It is there that the Fakers haven't been able to 'measure up'. Check it out for the little penis-head at the top of the vetical line of the 'L'.

From your images it looks to be present, but it doesn't hurt to look under magnification.

Hope this helps.

--------------------

Bruce

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Bruce,

One thing to keep in mind is that the maker mark on the GWL CCC is raised whereas all other GWL badges I'm aware of have stamped maker's marks. Would it be comparing apples with apples? There does appear to be a manly protrusion in the right place though.

Regards
Mike K

[jacques]

Hi
Your badge looks good. The pin is not in the same metal as the badge, but ? I saw on forums the flat pin and the curved pin 'as your). I know a CCC in aluminium with an original square pin.
Is your in zinc or aluminium?
jacques

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Jacques,

I believe the badge is made from zinc (or, more correctly , a zinc-based alloy). It's definitely not aluminium (my badge is too heavy) and not steel (which is what the main pin is made from).

Thanks for the response so far guys. Skip sent me the images he has of a nicely finished bronze example (source/provenance unknown) which has the same characteristics as mine. Mark's badge is the same again (the images have vanished though?), but with a very nice silver finish. I'm now beginning to think that mine may indeed be a heavily worn silver version.

One thing I've noticed when comparing the fluted pin on my GWL to the repro fluted-pin FLL CCCs, is that the widest point on the repro FLL pins is almost dead centre of the main pin whereas on the 4 fluted pin GWLs (yes, not many!!) I've seen the widest point is offset to the right of centre (when looking at the badge from the reverse).

Regards
Mike K

[Richard]

Mike, the logo looks to be either indicative of an original or someone has made a great copy of the logo that is to be feared!
Richard V