Worn badges

[Bruce Simcox]

Worn badges?

How can we really be sure a particular item was worn in combat or merely uniform worn?

Just what is the criteria for deciding on whether a badge is:

1) worn, as in worn on a uniform(combat or display)
2) worn, as in having had a rough time of it for any number of reasons

I see a lot of descriptions about worn badges and, more and more, I get the feeling that the badges I am reading about(and observing via images) are considered to have been worn on a uniform. Of course, in some cases, the authors of some these threads make the claim that their badge is 'combat worn.'

Granted we look for 'wear patterns' that would seem consistent with what we would expect a 'uniform worn' badge to look like. How does one really know for sure?

I personally know of badges that have languished in drawers(or boxes) over the years and, quite frankly, exhibit wear that some would swear shows they were 'combat worn'. But in reality they are suffering from nothing more than having been ignored, banged around and even rubbed against other items of varying composition to include cloth.

Some badges even show what seem to be signs of 'combat wear' and are accompanied by zink-pest. Does this mean that they were 'combat worn' and then carelessly neglected over the years? Or were they they unworn and victims of bad storage and zink-pest too?

My point being is that after 60 plus years, since the end of WWII hostilities, it seems to me that the 'combat/uniform worn' claims are now very difficult or most likely nearly impossible to substantiate with any sure degree of validity.

[willcpfc]

I agree its almost impossible to say whether an individual badge saw "action" or not. Would love it if they could tell us their life stories though

[mike y]

How many badges were worn in combat, and during the war? My Guess if it looks like it was worn in combat ( bent pins and catches, repairs, dirt, patina, worn finish, names scratched into it, alterations and modifications) then, most likely, it was worn during the war, and it is very possible that it saw some sort of combat action......... Maybe I'm just a glass half full kind of guy....... but this is why I don't usually collect "pretty" looking badges. I like to think at least a few of my " combat worn look" badges were actually worn in combat.

[Jody]

Worn badges

Hello,
I would also like to add, that as a collector who started in 1972 many badges were worn by kids and the stuff in the 60's and 70's. I was in 6th grade and wore several times a Luft GAB and even played war with it on (I was not the only one to do this). I sold that badge in the the early 80's and who ever has it now probably thinks it saw some action. It did, but it was after 1945. Heck we even wore belt buckles, etc.

So everything with wear does not mean it survived D-Day or something.

I guess that is why I like the minty stuff.

Regards,
Jody

[Thomas Durante]

Thanks for the insight Jody. Although I really can't imagine any kids wearing this stuff to school today and I really wouldn't dare let any of my kids put this stuff on and wear it outside to play, I don't doubt that this was done by others in the past

Tom

[Jody]

Worn Badges

Thanks for the insight Jody. Although I really can't imagine any kids wearing this stuff to school today and I really wouldn't dare let any of my kids put this stuff on and wear it outside to play, I don't doubt that this was done by others in the past

Tom

Hi Tom,
Trust me it was done. I even used to wear a 1939 EK 1st class on my jacket every now and then. Most of this stuff still did not have too great of a value back then. I have to find a picture of me playing war as a kid (I was around 11) and I am wearing a nice no decal Heer M-40 and and I have a nice stickgrenade stuck in a German belt with Gott Mit Uns buckle.

It was a different time and people did not get so uptight about it. My History teacher in 7th and 8th grade was a 3rd Army veteran and kept in his classroom a large Third Reich battle flag and two German helmets he captured (he later sold me one of the helmets). You could not do that today. My friend Victor took a Japanese bayonet and Japanese hand grenade to show and tell in the 4th grade. In 7th grade I took a German dress sword to school when I did a report on Hitler and I walked back home from school with it wrapped up in two pillow cases (no one said a word, except that it was cool). The good old days.

Regards,
Jody

[Bruce Simcox]

Hi Jody......

......What you said rings very true. As a kid in the 50's I saw a lot of 'war souvenirs' around. My friends Dad had a Japanese Arisaka rifle that he had picked from a pile of confiscated weapons and then sent home complete with ammo, sling and sheathed bayonet. We used to dress up with the rifles(he had a 1917 Enfield that he bought by mail order-I had the Arisaka) and march around the neighborhood on our way to shoot them. I was 10 at the time.

I'll never forget the Old West Gunroom in El Cerrito, CA where, in the 50's, the proprietor had an entire display case full of daggers, medals and badges just piled one on top of another with armbands mixed in too. Quite a sight. Get this: Luft daggers were marked at $20 a pop.

My first German medal was a WW! EKII that a buddy's Grandad had brought home. I paid $1.50 for it. I used to wear it on a chain around my neck(surfer thing) and it saw a lot of wear before I finally lost it in the ocean in Bolinas, CA in the 60's.

Other kids had German and Japanese stuff too, that we played with frequently, and no one really thought much about it in those days.

[mike y]

So even though we can't be certain that every worn badge saw some sort of pre 1945 action, would it be safe to say that the majority did? or would you think that the odds are lower then that?

[Jody]

Worn Badges

So even though we can't be certain that every worn badge saw some sort of pre 1945 action, would it be safe to say that the majority did? or would you think that the odds are lower then that?

Hello,
In my opinion, I think a good majority of the military stuff with wear and tear suffered it post-war from mishandling, played with, inproper storage, lack of care from the dealer, etc. I remember buying badges and medals from a guy at the swap meet who kept everything stored in a cigar box or ammo can. I bet the wear to the EK paint from these crosses was post-war.

Heck I used to buy German helmets from the military surplus store and they ran around $35 each. They were stacked one on top of the other and nothing was between the helmets. As I said earlier, collectors with these helmets today probably think these things saw some action from their wear and tear.

I have numerous vet items from relatives, and again you can't say if the wear was done during the war or after. I have a nice Luftwaffe Ground Assault badge that my great uncle captured. My grandmother was sent this badge during the war and up until she gave it to me in the early 70's she kept it in her sewing box. The badge does have some minor wear, was it obtained in combat or from spools of thread knockig against it (I guess I will never know).

Remember some of these items have been out of German hands for seventy years or longer. A lot can happen in seventy years.

Regards,
Jody

[mike y]

I guess if you put it that way Jody, every ( or at least most) badge/s with wear on it, would most likely have gotten at least part of it's wear post 1945 along with any wear it may have received pre 1945. It makes you wonder how many mint badges might be out there right now if everything had been taken care of after the war......... but then again some of these wear patterns are very appealing, and just add to the story behind each badge ( even though we may never know that story)...... oh if they could only talk!

[Flemming]

I have noticed that some people will always describe their items as combat worn, combat find, "this is def. an early example" and so.
For me, it seems just as a way to make the piece more interesting, but the only thing it does to me, is irritating me.

Describe what it is, and not what you want it to be. If there's no rock hard provenance/evidence, than you can't be sure, and should only descrie what you see.
We are not used car dealers, but honest people, or so I would like to believe.

Best regards
Flemming

[1Perazzi]

And how many medals were in boxes or parts drawers in someones garage getting all scuffed up? Same with helmets.
Mike

[Pepe77]

Sorry for stealing this thread but I must react on Jody´s story about kids playing with third reich stuff. My uncle said to me that similar games were very popular in former Sudetenland. There is one exception: after war was no problem to get some weapon at old attic. Unfortunately some boys died during these dangerous games.

[DaveNZ]

It was a different time and people did not get so uptight about it....

.... The good old days.

I wonder why people have got more uptight with time: you would think it would be the opposite as time moves us further away from WW2

[Jody]

Worn Badges

I wonder why people have got more uptight with time: you would think it would be the opposite as time moves us further away from WW2

Hello,
We have gotten too politically correct. In some areas now local TV stations can no longer show Hogan's Heroes. When I was a kid I could buy a model German airplane and swastika decals would come with it; not the case now.

I have seen several books at our local library and the swastika is covered up on the cover. That would not have happened even 10 years ago.

When I do my WWII displays at school I now have to get parent pernission slips and every once and a while a parent does not want their child to see the stuff.

We may have moved farther away from it and people now know less about it, but now they want to brush it under the rug or little Johnny could be harmed for life.

We wonder why History repeats itself.


Regards,
Jody