"Deumer" badge discussion

[willcpfc]

I have been offered this IAB with document. I like the badge but the pin has had a repair. Is it any good? Any thoughts appreciated

[willcpfc]

Hardware...

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Will,

Nice original early Deumer IAB in pretty nice condition. Too bad about the missing hingepin, but still a nice and desirable early IAB.

Tom

[willcpfc]

Thats great! I had a good feeling about it and have got it at a nice price

However I may have to move it on as there are more pressing purchases.
The docs look nice too

[AndyC]

Nice find on a early IAB



Andy

[Andreas Klein]

Nice original badge .... and based on the lattest findings of Deumer IAB packets with badges of a different design in them i have some problems to believe this one was made by Deumer.

[Thomas Durante]

Hallo Andreas,

What were the IABs found in these Deumer packets you mention? Is there a thread on what was found?

Thanks

Tom

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Tom,

here is the thread fom 2007 (!) when the first set of them popped up:

Link

The pictures of the packet are lost in that thread but it was exactly the same as it was shown in the german SDA some weeks ago (and imo in GCA too).

[Thomas Durante]

OK, thanks Andreas. I am familiar with that old thread, and the more recent ones. I thought there was some new information that came to light recently.

I agree that the badge in that thread is a later war, solid back zinc Deumer IAB. But the one in this thread is an early war, hollowback tombak Deumer; different time periods revealing the differences we see in base metal, hardware and design IMO.

Tom

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Tom,

i know the point you mentioned but you can find the design of this tombak IAB made as hollow zink version aswell - later war version. So following the actual believing Deumer would have used 2 differnt designs for the zink production at the same time?

I say no, for what? .... doesn't make sense and i coun't a "badge+maker market packet" combo which turns up more than a "badge+setup+believing" combo.

[Thomas Durante]

Hallo Andreas,

Just looked back at the thread on GCA, but no one posted the recently found packet. I looked briefly on SDA, but didn't see it, can you post pics of this latest find with packet? Thanks.

Regarding the hollow zink Deumer IAB, that is a good point but that is only if Deumer kept hollow production till the very end. That is very uncommon to do, almost all the makers I can think of switched to solid back zinc production at some point.

And Deumer was a VERY prolific, and well established maker (Deumer himself was a leading member of the establishment of the LDO in early 1941), so surely they were involved in IAB/GAB/PAB production from the beginning. So where are all the hollow, tombak IABs/GABs/PABs that match the "solid back, deformed leaf" design?? That is the biggest question for me...

Tom

[Andreas Klein]

Hallo Andreas,

Just looked back at the thread on GCA, but no one posted the recently found packet. I looked briefly on SDA, but didn't see it, can you post pics of this latest find with packet? Thanks.

Hi Tom,

i hope that i have them on file at home. If yes i will send them to you to post them here in the thread.

Regarding the hollow zink Deumer IAB, that is a good point but that is only if Deumer kept hollow production till the very end. That is very uncommon to do, almost all the makers I can think of switched to solid back zinc production at some point.

.... and what's you conclusion of that?

If the hollow zink bade is a mid to late war badge it would have been produced at the same time like the massive zink IAB with another design. That's for me the biggest give away for this maker link because we can't overlook a massive IAB which was found in a maker marked package.

Btw the so called Juncker IAB can only be found as hollow version - in nickel silver or zink but never as massive zink version.

And Deumer was a VERY prolific, and well established maker (Deumer himself was a leading member of the establishment of the LDO in early 1941), so surely they were involved in IAB/GAB/PAB production from the beginning. So where are all the hollow, tombak IABs/GABs/PABs that match the "solid back, deformed leaf" design?? That is the biggest question for me...
Tom

If yes ... why didn't they mark the badge itself? i think a profilic maker would have been proud of his production and signed it. Perhaps the same thing as we know it from Steinhauer&Lück ... they had no own die for the production and shared it with others ones.

Why didn't they use the same design as Steinhauer ... they were located 100 meters away of them over the street.

Btw Mr. Schickle was a leading member of the LDO too .... and thrown out - very surprised of that. So i think beeing a member of the LDO doesn't say anything about what a maker produced or not.

[manse77]

Hi Will,
Very nice early deumer, I like it a lot.
Regards
Rhidian

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Andreas was kind enough to send me the pics of the solid-backed "Deformed Leaf" IAB that was found in the Deumer-marked packet, here it is:

[Thomas Durante]

Packet