FAKE WARNING: hollow IAB (B.H. Mayer)

[Sal Williams]

Ahhhh,... but Philippe, I travel to the homes of the experts

[Bruce Simcox]

Another good thread......

......and thanks Frank for displaying these spurious B.H. Mayer badges so that we may all learn from them.

However, one must not forget that for a very long time, decades to be exact, there has been a rather robust reproduction industry. In order to maintain sales this industry has endeavored to create some rather excellent examples, of Third Reich regalia, to supply a rather obvious demand. My old issues of MILTARY HISTORY magazine and WORLD WAR II magazine, containing a great many ads for selling reproduction Third Reich regalia, are perfect examples of this. As a result, I feel, that many of these manufactured-and-sold-as-reproductions badges are ending up in today's (and even yesterday's) market, for sale as originals.

Not to stray too far from base here, I will show you a related example of what we're dealing with, concerning the manufacture of FAKES. This image isn't perfect and was pulled from one of the above mentioned magazines (can't remember exactly which one), but it is for reproduction R.K.'s that, according to the ad, are made from original dies; complete with maker mark and claiming to be of the same high quality as the original award pieces. As a result of this ad I would think that original dies of the more common badges could have survived and found themselves once again useful, but for an entirely different market than that they were originally made for. These original dies may also have been, upon wearing out, a basis for the creation of new dies that are somewhat off and could be responsible, in part, for the perplexing appearance of these near exact copies we are seeing in our hobby being proffered at the present time as being of genuine Third Reich era manufacture.

Here's the ad that I shot with my digital. Hope it's ok. This ad dates from 1987.

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Bruce

[Bruce Simcox]

Here......

......is a close up of part of the ad.

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bruce

[Felix]

Im sorry to say it...

... but I disagree with both Frank and Phillippe. I think its the lousy unsharp photo from a strange angle in combination with effects of less contrast of the "frosty" so called fake hollowback in the first thread I provided a link for, that makes you think like this. I do not mean the first badge of this thread to be original. Its a clear fake. I mean the first badge in the first link I provided in this thread.

I respect you two gentlemen the most but I have a rather strong case here. Maybe not for originality but atleast for that they use original templates for making fakes. Or are they originals? To prove my point I like to get help with posting photos of 3 IABs I have in my collection.

I would be very pleased if Frank and Phillippe could point out what makes the difference between an original and not. Everybody elses comments are also welcome. What do you think? Are all 3 bages I post; original or fake? Is any of them original?

I would also like to be very polite and ask both gentlemen Frank and Phillippe not to take any offence. I mean that in no way. I just want to find the solution the of this case.

Keep up the good work!

/Felix

p.s. Please would someone offer to help me post photos here? PM me

[Philippe DB]

Hi Felix,


I send you a PM with my e-mail address and I'll post your pics tomorrow morning.

Not sure if I can follow you I can't find the link you posted in the first link you provided us with in this thread.

I'm sure it will be much easier for you to make your point if we manage to post your pics in this thread.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys

Here are the pics Felix send me and IMO all three of them are originals

Interesting thing is that the one to the left has an no cut between the swas and the rifle just like the copies posted by Frank in the beginning of the thread.

Since I really can't see anything wrong with it I think we were to quick to call the first badge in the thread Felix refered to a copie and that he had a point in defending it. We all thought that first badge was a copie based on the kind of fakes that Frank posted in this thread but that had already poped in earlier threads.

So what do you guys think is it save to conclude that original cut and an non cut versions of these buntmetall IAB's existed. It wouldn't be the first IAB with 2 versions and it also would explain why the copie is a non cut variant.

Thanks for your persistence Felix , if everybody agrees on the authenticity of the non-cut version we learned something new today.

[Philippe DB]

reverse

[Philippe DB]

and a blow up of the non-cut variant

[Philippe DB]

reverse non-cut

[Tom Yanacek]

Great investigative work Frank! Very informative.

Thank you! Tom Yanacek