Aluminum CCC

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Gentlemen,

Very interesting thread the the CCC that started with the GWL. But, I never really recieved any response to my question which was in reference to the aluminum examples. Angel was kind enough to post his example, thank you Angel.

I would like to know if some other members can post some pics of an aluminum example as well as post some specs. Weight and measurments.

Any additional background info would be most appriciated as well.

Best,
JD

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Joe!

Sorry, but I cannot help you on that one. I have never owned a GWL clasp in aluminum. They must be very scarce though. I don't think that aluminum would have been used much in the production of medals and badges during the middle and later war years, when the metal was desperately needed for the production of war materials. Even in the pre-war and early war years I do not think it was used to a great extent because I believe it was determined to be too flimsy of a metal for the making of national decorations.
Best regards! Tom Yanacek

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hi tom,



Thank you for the response.I agree as it does not seem logical that a CCC would be produced aluminum.

I am not saying that the example that Angel posted is not original, just looking for some research on the background, logic ,criteria , scarcity et..



Best,
JD

[jacques]

Hi

I have no doubt that the aluminium was used on CCC, silver and gold (I don't know for bronze) . the silver or gold wash stay very well on the aluminium; Angel CCC shows it well.
Here is a gold one.

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Jacques,

Thank you for posting the example, but what proof is their behind your example and Angels that the CCC was produced in aluminum It does not seem logical that aluminum pieces would be produces late 1942, almost 1943.

Especially with the design of the badge and it being suseptable to a broken pin , hinge or catch.

Looking foward to hearing more on the province of these.

Best,
JD

[Gene]

With the plethora of Luftwaffe qualification badges in aluminum, is it unreasonable for an aluminum CCC to be produced? Say as a private purchase and/or summer tunic piece? Just wonderin'. . . .

[Angel Farré]

Joseph, I'm more a paperman that a really medal collector so really not much research in this field have been done by myself, but I have found information pointing in the direction of aluminium CCC since the late 70's when I just play with plastic soldier and have no idea that I will be ending in this world. What can I say to you is that I have found three examples of aluminium CCC "GWL" marked and one more unmarked but with all characteristics of a "GWL" piece, from this they were two silvers and one gold, the unmarked one, and now I can add the one shown here. I also was amazed with the idea of aluminium Heer badges and at a late date as 1.942/1.943, but I can say that three of the aluminium clasps comes from vets, mine is the only one with no provenance as it was the surplus one from a friend that was kind enough to offer it to me when he purchased a whole CCC collection with almost every makermark present, all has been passed by the vet itself, no one comes from a dealer of collector and the Gold one is part of a whole group incluiding almost all his medals, citations, photos and some uniform pieces from the soldier and I have seen that he also received an "FLL" one (unafortunately he didn't remember which one was the presentation piece as the ceremony was at the front). I have searched several articles and publications and in various I found reference to aluminium clasps, but never a photo or if "GWL" was the only maker that used this material in his clasps, surely a short batch due its rarity, maybe too expensive, forbidden due the aluminium was in high demand for other things or simply it was decided that it was unecesary as the normal ones will cover perfectly the demand of the Heer and private purchases.

Apart from this I can say that the two golds have the pin ended in a square cut and the two silver in a pointed one, they meet the pattern shown by its zink sisters and only the weight denote the difference. I will try to send it to y brother's laboratory to have its weight and post it here. If you want I can post also the photos from it here.

I'm also interested in finding more info about this mistery clasp, but I can't find other collectors that have one or have some info regarding this variant far away from my own investigations.

Angel

[nellyp51]

Thats interesting to know about CCCs, thanks for the post.

Joseph, I'm more a paperman that a really medal collector so really not much research in this field have been done by myself, but I have found information pointing in the direction of aluminium CCC since the late 70's when I just play with plastic soldier and have no idea that I will be ending in this world. What can I say to you is that I have found three examples of aluminium CCC "GWL" marked and one more unmarked but with all characteristics of a "GWL" piece, from this they were two silvers and one gold, the unmarked one, and now I can add the one shown here. I also was amazed with the idea of aluminium Heer badges and at a late date as 1.942/1.943, but I can say that three of the aluminium clasps comes from vets, mine is the only one with no provenance as it was the surplus one from a friend that was kind enough to offer it to me when he purchased a whole CCC collection with almost every makermark present, all has been passed by the vet itself, no one comes from a dealer of collector and the Gold one is part of a whole group incluiding almost all his medals, citations, photos and some uniform pieces from the soldier and I have seen that he also received an "FLL" one (unafortunately he didn't remember which one was the presentation piece as the ceremony was at the front). I have searched several articles and publications and in various I found reference to aluminium clasps, but never a photo or if "GWL" was the only maker that used this material in his clasps, surely a short batch due its rarity, maybe too expensive, forbidden due the aluminium was in high demand for other things or simply it was decided that it was unecesary as the normal ones will cover perfectly the demand of the Heer and private purchases.

Apart from this I can say that the two golds have the pin ended in a square cut and the two silver in a pointed one, they meet the pattern shown by its zink sisters and only the weight denote the difference. I will try to send it to y brother's laboratory to have its weight and post it here. If you want I can post also the photos from it here.

I'm also interested in finding more info about this mistery clasp, but I can't find other collectors that have one or have some info regarding this variant far away from my own investigations.

Angel

[Brian S]

I think the problem with aluminum is the fragility of the product. These CCC's were worn in combat zones and as such would have been exposed to the most strenuous vigors of war. Look how quickly the Luftwaffe badge makers quit making aluminum badges. I'm a bit uneasy with these. They don't make much sense to me. I like the way they look, for sure, but in a practical sense I have a problem.

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Gentlemen,

Thank you Angel for providing the background on your example.

I think I am with Brian on this. I do not see how it would make sense to make the award from aluminum. As Brian stated, the LW gave up on these for reasons of fragilty, so why even consider it for issue to those exposed to the rigors of combat situations.

Perhaps they were private purchase pieces for parade wear. But, if they were just fakes, wouldn't we seemore of them ?

Just my thoughts, I think they are stunning looking, but I would not say that their is at the moment not enough province for me.

I hope that some other members will be able to add something.

Best,
JD

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Guys,

I dug through my files and found some pics of a GWL marked clasp, apparently aluminum but with what appears to be 1957 pin. Also notice the backplate has no crimping that I can see to hold the backplate on. The obverse matches known GWL clasp characteristics and the reverse appears to too, with the exception of crimping and pin. Is this some evidence of the wartime die being used after the war?

I am not making a case either way as I have never handled an aluminum clasp. I will say that I never really doubted their existence and hadn't put much thought into them as they NEVER come up for sale and I only know 2 people that own them. Good thread Joe.

The pictures shown are from Jacques. Jacques, please let me know if you want me to take these off.

Tom Durante

[Thomas Durante]

reverse

[jacques]

Hi

The picture posted by Tom, come from Mike Tucker Site.

jacques

[phosphateb]

guys why not aluminum? Lots of planes US and German were knocked out of the sky. Wonder if a concerted effort occured to recycle or use for sideline industries?

[Angel Farré]

Maybe an attemp to recover the LW aluminium way? perhaps they have the tools and tecnology and try to take some money from this machines and materials that they had in stock, for sure a short batch, but how rare are LW aluminium badges?

Anyone has seen any other Heer badge in aluminium?

Angel