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Cheers, Frank
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In my opinion most GAB´s, solid or hollow show less quality and detail compared to the IAB or the PAB.
Peter WikingComment
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To avoid more posts of non-Assmann steel GABs in this thread to prove Peter wrong, let´s say that SOME GABs (the die CAST ones) are of bad quality. We all know there are very beautiful and detailed ones as well!
Cheers, Frank
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I was only trying to coment Mark, when he say:
What is strange to me is that I cant consider that either one of Franks badges would be suitable for issue. The first one is missing so much detail, and the second one is full of pits....I couldnt imagine a modern $1.49 keychain fob released on the market with the imperfections like the second one, and since we know that the first one should have the pebbling, but doesnt, surely the manufacturer would to. We are talking serious die clogging here.
Many GAB´s with low quality in details are original.
Cheers. Guess i like the IAB and PAB better.
Peter Wiking
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Could the material be cast iron of some sort ?
Cheers.
Peter WikingComment
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Well, there ARE GABs that will make you forget PABs and IABs for a while, but let´s not get into that.
Cheers, Frank
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Material of my two Assmann marked hollow GABs (as all of this type) is magnetic, i.e. steel or iron.
Material of the two badges I showed side by side to demonstrate bad quality in original items is zinc.Cheers, Frank
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Any ideas on my cast iron theory ?
Peter WikingComment
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answered in post #22!Cheers, Frank
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Perhaps a lesser quality steel was used (softer??) to save wear on the dies.
or perhaps it is just impurities in the metal. Do you think they are early, mid, or late war badges?
Donpseudo-expertComment
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well, I have to agree...those are some bad detailed GAB you are sharing...I guess your made your point.
Lets get back to the metal composition..
are there file marks from injection molding?
It almost looks like they were cast using some witches brew of melted scrap. A little of this, a little of that would cause such deformities to occur.
I dont know enough about steel milling to understand how you could make sheet steel for stamping that is full of impurities though.
Accidentally offending people on the internet since 1997
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Check the pics of my second badge again, especially the pin and the catch. How could one find an explanation that these two parts also share the very same pitting??? The catch is of course actually soldered onto the badge, having been a seperate part before.Cheers, Frank
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Hi guys,
Here's some thoughts from a manufacturing point of view.
First off these magnetic hollowback badges are not cast. There would not be enough hollow space in the die to get an even casting. The molten metal would freeze up well before it filled the die due to lack of molten mass. Especially casting steel as the temperature required would be very high to melt even low carbon steel. Badges are generally produced in the same way that belt buckles are. Casting steel would not be an effiecient way of forming that material for thin badges, etc. Steel, brass and nickle silver is usually stamped from sheet stock as would be hollow zinc ones. Aluminum, zinc and white metal are generally cast or hot forged if they are the massive type or semi massive type.
The steel used in the hollow back stamped badges was a low carbon simple steel. Basically iron with a small percentage of carbon and other elements to make it steel. Steel can be soft or hard depending on the carbon content and whether it is hardened and tempered or not. Before stamping the planchetes were annealed to a dead soft state. The hardened steel dies would impress the three D image of the badge. This process would also work harden the steel to some degree. the stamped planchet would then be trimmed, plated and assembled with pin and catch. Not necessarily in that order though. Steel being generally a bit less movable in die forming compared to brass, nickle silver or zinc would call for a less detailed die for efficiency.
Qualities can vary a bit but the pitted badge that Frank shows is in my opinion a refinished or repolished badge. This type of pitting on steel is the result corrosion due to rusting. This same type of pitting is usually noticed on firearms that have rusted and have been reblued after a poor polish job. This is my opinion because of the brite look to the metal and that there is no sign of any flux oxidation to the brass brazed or soldered areas around the hinge.
The cast badge that Frank shows with the dimples or irregular surface texture is due to incorrect casting temperature of either the mold or the molten metal. This is something that shooters of muzzleloading weapons are well aware of if they cast their own round ball or slugs. This is just a production anamoly that was deemed acceptable, prbably at a later stage in the war.
I also have an Assman marked stamped steel GAB that is quite crisp in stike while lacking the very fine details of a softer material badge.
As for GABs being lesser quality than either IABs or PABs is not true. There are many GABs that are of equal or in some cases better quality than IABs or PABs. It all depends on the manufacturer.
Just some thoughts.
TonyAn opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
"First ponder, then dare." von MoltkeComment
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Tiger1.
That was interesting info. It sure looks like a low grade steel or some kind of iron in both Franks´s and my GAB´s. Maybee a very late war production.
Maybee the answer is simple. They simply had to use rusted and pitted steel plates for this batch of GAB´s. Same with the pin.
PS.
I still like the IAB and PAB quality better Please dont kill me for having that opinion 
Cheers all.
Peter WikingComment
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Hi GuysOriginally posted by Peter WikingPS.
I still like the IAB and PAB quality better Please dont kill me for having that opinion
Interesting thread, and great info Tonyl
, sadly I can't contribute much but based upon everythig I have read so far my conclusion would also be that this strange phenomenon is a result of the combination between low quality alloys and bad maintenance of the production tools. Anyway still difficult to imagin that Frank's shiny silver GAB would ever have past QC, but than again who can realy imagin the harsch conditions under which the last badges were made.
Guys why are you in trying to convince each other that the quality of one award was better than an other. This really doesn't make sence, of course they are all of the same quality as long as you compare apples with apples.
Peter you don't really believe that e.g Wernstein used an inferior material or finish to produce their zinc GAB compared to their zinc IAB's or PAB's, do you?
KR
Philippe
KR
PhilippeLast edited by Philippe DB; 03-15-2004, 06:09 AM.Comment
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