IAB - Eye of the Eagle

[Spitfire]

[IMG]
http://images.andale.com/f2/117/115/...4_MVC_027g.jpg[/IMG]

I have an IAB by maker Fritz Zimmerman and Sohne. On this badge, the eagle's eye has a "pupil" . I have heard it rummoured that IAB's with a pupil in the eagle's eye could be fake. Is there any truth to this rumor? I would appreciate any comments on this subject.

For some reason I can only attach one pic at a time therefore I will follow this post with a pic of the reverse (maker).

Thanks, Al

[Spitfire]

Makers mark for IAB

[Spitfire]

reposting link

[Lorenzo Brown]

Here are scans of original silver and bronze FZZS IAB's. The eyes look similar to yours, but here is a link so you can compare the whole badge.
http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/files/iabfzzs.jpg

[Spitfire]

IAB

Thanks for the response Lorenzo as well as the link to those great pics.

Seem's the eagle can have a pupil in FZS badges. I always knew my IAB looked good.

Al

[Tim Calvert]

Lorenzo,
Those birds looked tired and stressed. Either get them some coffee or get them a Motel 6!
Is it true that methamphetamine was developed by Germany in WW II? Maybe Fritz and son were up late when they made these badges?
Happy Friday!

[Lorenzo Brown]

Nope...those tired, bloodshot eyes are from getting up at 4:30 AM for Detlev's auction!!

[Tim B.]

Compare these FZZS IAB's

Lorenzo,

Okay, here's a good common badge post that I have been waiting for. I have a silver IAB from this maker and have always been suspect of it even though it has the basic design characteristics shown in references of the FZZS badges.

Recently, I met up with another collector who had two of these badges and was kind enough to allow me to take digital PICS and measurements of his badges for comparison. When I first viewed his badges, I immediately saw the differences in finishes, but I also noticed that his two badges had totally different hinge set ups and different pins as well. Surprisingly, the overall dimensions and weights were very close to one another.

I have always suspected my badge of being a high quality repo based on the following observations:

First, the overall silver finish applied to the front is a darker grayish silver than the rest of the badge and is evident on the edges.

You can see what appears to be a whitish looking metal along the inside of the wreath and along the rifle and sling areas. This color is actually the same as the overall finish on the reverse of the badge, which looks correct to me.

Second, I can see a difference in the number of lines behind the eagle's eye in my badge as compared to others in this post and wonder if that might be a telltale sign right off.

Here's what I have for measurements on the three badges and I'll include PICS of these over the following posts:

My badge Friends (1) Friends (2)
Width: 49 mm 48 mm 49 mm
Height: 63 mm 63 mm 65 mm
Maker's
Mark circle: 6 mm 6 mm 6 mm
Weight: 27.1 grams 25.7 grams 28.5 grams

Here's mine:

[Tim B.]

Reverse:

[Tim B.]

Hinge:

[Tim B.]

Here's the Friends two badges

Front:

[Tim B.]

and the reverse... Note the difference in hinge assemblies!

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi Tim. Go to this link and drop down about three posts. The discussion goes to FZZS IAB's and how they changed their hinge, pin and catch assemblies over time. Your badge appears to have the original rectangular inset behind the hinge plate that is discussed. There are some other FZZS IAB examples.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&threadid=5964

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Tim,

I think your IAB looks fine. If it's a repro then all the others are too as they all seem to share the same die characteristics. The hinge may be different to the other two but it is crimped in, which seems to be correct for this later type. Add a fourth hinge variation to FZS IAB's!!

The difference in the obverse and reverse finishes is something I've seen before. I have an AS in a triangle (Adolf Scholze) silver IAB with a darkened and burnished silver front and lighter matt silver reverse. Maybe the variation in finish is due to age, maybe they were finished differently so as not to present a nice shiny target for Russian bullets.

Regards
Mike K

PS: Maybe the finish on your badge is just too nice - I suggest you acid wash the reverse, followed by a good rub with steel wool. That should even the finish up a bit! ONLY kidding!!

[Tim B.]

Thanks Guys,

After my last post, I may not be around much longer, but the information here possibly saved me from trashing a suspect badge into the trash drawer. All the best,
Tim