Close combat clasp by Gablonz

[Eric Stahlhut]

What about this one?

front:

[Eric Stahlhut]

back:

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

For the dicsussion, here are a set of 3 REPRODUCTIONS currently being auctioned:



Regards
Mike K

[Eric Stahlhut]

The method of crimping the steel back-plate in is noticeably different. My example is 100% original.

[Redzed]

Hi JNoble,

Just to inform you, my backing plate is identical to Ivans. Also has the blueish colour to it. I hope this is right, chances are good though that it is as i bought this directly from the vet, although this means squat!!!!

Dion

[IVAN]

Hi Redzed,

yes, of course blueish plate is right and it mean a very good quality badge!

your vet is a south african people?

Ivan

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

SAMES AS ERIC'S ?

Hello - I beleive Eric's & mine are pretty much if not exactly the same except Eric's has lost a bit more finish.
The way the backing plate has been crimped is to me unusal & always a slight niggling concern however after seeing Eric's it makes me feel a whole lot better having seen another example
Thanks Eric

[Redzed]

Hi Ivan,

Yes, the vet is a South African. Story goes that he took the medals off a dead German infantry man. The medals that came in this small grouping were the following:
1) Infantry Assault badge in silver made by RS
2) EK 1 maker L14
3) Wound badge in silver by maker 11
4) CCC in silver by AGMuK

Nice little grouping of top quality badges. I was happy as all this cost me $300; In South African Rands of course, its quite a bit.

Dion

[IVAN]

Hi Dion,

it's always fascinating the little storys around the badges that come from vet, if they are real.

my compliments for getting them!

Ivan

[Yuri D.]

Here are pictures that I have taken of a genuine badge:

Yuri

<img src=http://www.bender-publishing.com/display/ccc_muk_1.jpg>
<br>
<img src=http://www.bender-publishing.com/display/ccc_muk_2.jpg>

[Yuri D.]

Mike, thank you for calling exact attention to these types of badges as being reproductions. I personally dislike a lot of CCC badges with protruding crimps that hold the backplate. The crimping has to be long and parallel vertically.

Yuri

[Pieter Verbruggen]

CCC BY GABLONZ

IVAN

TO FIND THESE HELL BLUE BACK PLATES ON A GABLONZ MADE CCC IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.
IT IS SEEN OFTEN BY THIS MAKER. ALTHOUGH I DON'T THINK IT WAS DONE TO GIVE THE CLASP A BETTER LOOK (BUT I LIKE THESE BLUE PLATES) BUT JUST A DIFFERENT SUPLY FROM A DIFFERENT FIRM.
PIETER.

[Mike Kenny]

Hi

Yuri, a minor pont of clarification, the repro images I posted show a backing plate attaching system which is very close to Ivan's badge - it has the 4 mounds (2 on either side) and 2 short crimps top and bottom. On an original badge this method is new to me, but I guess the fakers got it from somewhere. I believe that there are genuine AGMuK CCCs which use mounds on either side to hold in the backplate.

Let me say up front that CCCs aren't my strongest badges and I've never studied them in detail although I'm familiar with the various makers. I am familiar with the 4 mound system (2 on either side) on genuine AGMuK CCCs, but I've only seen this style on the SMALL lettered maker mark versions (such as Andy's at the top of the thread). These mounds tend, from what I've seen, to be quite elongate with almost pointed ends, not squarish though. Yuri's example is the first I've noticed with this type of crimping (as opposed to mounding) on a small lettered badge. On the large lettered CCC, I've seen crimping (as opposed to mounds) in several configurations - left+right, left+right+top+bottom and left+right+top (bottom sometimes showing weak indications of an attempted crimp). On genuine AGMuKs I have NOT seen crimping along the FULL length of any side - to me that would be a bad sign for an AGMuK but OK for some other maker's.

Regarding main pins, I've seen flat/plain and fluted associated with both sizes of lettering on aparently genuine badges. I've also seen both roundwire and flatwire catches associated with both types of lettering on aparently genuine badges. The catches have always been genuinely crimped in to form a catch mound though. The obverse detailing on the small and large lettered versions also seems to be slightly different (to me anyway). The large lettered versions seem to be quite vaulted whereas the small lettered versions are relatively flat (only slightly vaulted). Genuine examples I've seen show strong evidence of shear marks on the edges, although with cast in hinges this may be due to trimming rather than true die-striking.

To sum up genuine AGMuK CCCs from my point of view, they are probably the most common maker marked CCC, there seem to be at least 4, maybe as many as 6 different backingplate attachment methods/combinations, 2 types of main pin, two types of catch, 2 types of makers marking, probably 2 sets of dies AND to thoroughly confuse everything, AGMuK CCCs are heavily reproduced in genuine and non-genuine combinations of the above!

Maybe one or more of you dedicated CCC collectors needs to write an article (member's only or otherwise) to clear up the mess!!

Regards
Mike K

PS: I've attached an image of the reverse of my 3 examples.

[Redzed]

Hi Guys,

I would just like to exspress my thanks and gratitude to eveybody that participated in this discussion. I`ve learned a hell of a lot and now consider myself fairly well educated on the subject of A.G.M.u.K CCC`s.



Best regards to all of you

Dion

[Mark S.]

All right, now I am confused.

Comparing what is shown of the maker marks in Yuri's picture, and the bottom one of Mikes (both of which appear to be the small letter variety), I noticed that the 'L' in Gablonz is lower case on Yuri's badge, and upper case on Mikes. Not only that, but the Z on Mikes badge is at least a third bigger than the N that precedes it.

Not only that but the FEC W. E. PEEKHAUS mark are not even close to being the same.

These are obviously not the same maker marks. What gives?