Difference between Wartime & 1957 S&L badges

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

I wanted to present a theory that I think is very significant and is a very easy way to tell a wartime-produced Steinhauer & Luck badge versus one they produced postwar on their 1957-type badges.

I actually stumbled upon this as I was researching for my upcoming Paratrooper Badge book as I was comparing several wartime S&L para badges and several 1957 S&L para badges together. Once I noticed it, I went back and this theory seems to hold true for 100% of the badges most of us consider "wartime" S&L badges as well as dozens of 1957-type badges I was able to find and study. The best part is, it is a very visual characteristic that can be found on almost all wartime S&L badges and on their 1957 badges, so you can spot it very quickly on virtually all type of low resolution pictures.

Maybe some of you have already noticed this, but for me this is completely new information and I feel this is an EXTREMELY important discovery because ultimately it can give us a clue as to WHEN an S&L badge was produced, either wartime or postwar. This is an age-old question regarding S&L and if we all agree that this theory is correct, then it can really shed some light on some questionable badges: i.e., if a badge has this certain charateristic, then it is wartime, but if it has the different characteristic then it is post war.

Again, I have studied dozens and dozens of wartime and 57er badges and this theory holds water for all of them. I have yet to find a badge that contradicts this theory, but the best test is publicizing this and letting everyone check their badges.

This may not be as important for common badges like IABs, GABs, PABs, etc, but when it will really come in handy is on "questionable" S&L badges like their Anti-Partisan badges, or Retired Pilot badges, Glider badges, etc. Most, if not all of these "questionable" badges have what I consider the "1957 characteristic" and therefore this theory could lead to a real conclusion as to WHEN these badges were really produced and end the speculation that they were made during the war. For me, this is the REALLY exciting part of my theory, so lets get some good discussion here.

First, lets see if anyone else can notice it with a basic comparison. I will post a series of 6 wartime S&L badges and then a comparison of 6 1957 S&L badges.

What do all the wartime badges share? What aspect do all the 1957 badges share?

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Here are the 1957 badges

Tom

[Mike Yokum]

Hi Tom,

I'll take a crack at your question. The wartimers all have a base plate under the catch and the 57er's have a plain flat wire catch with no base plate.

BTW-one of those 57er's used to be mine and one still is!

If I'm right, what do I win???

[Leroy]

The vertical notch on the upper part of the pin?

[freeman]

Mike beat me to it ,no catch plates on the 57s
He gets the prize
Regards

Michael
PS I got it first on the GCA

[Giel VW]

What about this one then?

Maybe one should redifine to: S&L '57 badges have thick wire catches without catchplate...

[Leroy]

I hope somebody wins a cookie.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the answers so far, all good observations, but not exactly what the correct answer is. Here is more of a clue. The characteristic lies with the hinge and Leroy is getting close to it. These closeups aren't the best, but even these low resolution images are enough to see the characteristics I am looking for to tell between wartime produced and post war, 1957-produced S&L badges..

First up, the wartime hinges.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Here are the 57 hinges.

I know they are blurry, but comare these to the wartime hinges above and the answer I am looking for should be abundantly clear

Tom

[Leroy]

Tom - I note that you say that the characteristic lies with the hinge, but I'm seeing a difference in the type and location of the indentation on the pin in the area of the hinge. Please tell us!

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Leroy, you got it! It is the tool mark on the pin, right below where it meets the hinge.

S&L wartime badges have a distinct oval-shaped dimple or large tear-drop shaped smear. Whereas S&L's early 1957 badges have more of a long, thin line. This aspect is very consistent with S&L badges and in my opinion clearly delineates the different timeframes of when S&L badges were produced. It is my contention that S&L did NOT produce badges with the long, thin line during the war, but it only came into existence sometime postwar. Whether this came about in 1957 when they started production on new 57er badges or sometime prior is still a mystery to be solved.

Here is what I consider the typical "post war" S&L tool mark.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Where this theory REALLY comes into play is on "questionable" badges, where some have contended they are wartime manufacture, but are unique and different from normal and textbook wartime badges.

For instance, lets take this Luftwaffe Para badge by S&L. It uses the EXACT same wartime wreath used on S&L's "textbook" Para badges. It also uses the same obverse eagle design. Even the reverse hinge, pin and catch are IDENTICAL to their wartime production, so some have contended this is a wartime badge. However, one will notice that the hollow rivets and semi-hollow eagle reverse don't exactly match what we see on wartime produced S&L badges. This is usually were the discussion stops, because you have some guys that say this unique variant is an acceptable wartime variant, but others that don't think this is a wartime badges.

But with the unique tool mark on the pin being typical of S&L's 1957 badge construction, we can now say pretty definatively that this is a post-war produced badge in my opinion.

It is on "questionable" badges like this where this theory really is really exciting!!

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Here is the tool mark on the badge, typical of 1957er construction. It is also rumored that this badge was produced in the 1970s by S&L. What is scary is that the hinge, pin and catch are IDENTICAL to S&L's wartime badge construction, so they must have either had left over stocks way into the 1970s..or they were adept at replicating the exact hardware they used during the war.

But this doesn't matter, because of the tell-tale tool mark and we can now tell the difference.

Tom

[PAB_Collector]

Very, very intresting Thomas, thank you.

[Thomas Durante]

Here is another classic example of a "questionable" S&L badge that some deem to be wartime. It is another para badge, utilizing a wartime wreath and eagle. However, the eagle is soldered directly to the wreath, which is NOT how wartime badges were construction. But some have claimed that soldering of the eagle might have been a late-war process by S&L to be more efficient in production in the last year of the war.

However, we can say that this is likely NOT correct, but rather this badge was probably put together postwar from wartime parts. It still uses the wartime hinge, pin and catch but with the tell-tale 1957er scrape, we can now say for certain this is NOT a wartime produced badge.

Tom