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**fischer** · 03-09-2010, 07:32 AM

reverse...

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FLL E hollow S r.jpg (84.4 KB, 156 views)

**Hans Kondor** · 03-09-2010, 07:33 AM

Very nice one indeed!

**Thomas Durante** · 03-09-2010, 08:02 AM

Hi Don,

A great example, congrats. Is she a zinker? Hard to tell from the excellent, intact finish but I would think so. I think you are right on with the hardware thought that these are the earliest, you can see the same on the FLL Paras, Pilots, etc.

Tom

**Andreas Klein** · 03-09-2010, 08:31 AM

Hi Tom and Don,

how do you or we determine the production timeline by the soldered hardware?

I always thought that with the ongoing war germany run more and more in trouble with production resources. So the goal was to save resources in zink too.

From the resouces point of view a hollow zink badge should be later than a massive zink badge,

Anyway damned nice catch you made!

**Thomas Durante** · 03-09-2010, 08:59 AM

Hallo Andreas,

I thought we found one of these hollow FLLs in Nickel Silver not too long ago, maybe by Phil or Jordi. If FLLs made hollow ones in NS or tombak, then the natural progression would be to a hollow zinker on the same dies. The reverse hardware on these seem to point to earlier production rather than later in my opinion.

I agree with you that later in the war, FLL probably went back to hollow badges to save in zinc, but later in the war FLL was using the oval sheetmetal hinges predominantly. Also the swastika and rifle being cut out points to earlier manufacture rather than later, compared to say this badge which is late war FLL in my opinion.

Tom

Attached Files

1-fischer(earlier crimped catch).jpg (70.1 KB, 147 views)

**jordi** · 03-09-2010, 09:44 AM

Hi guys,

Unfortunately was Philippe and not me who found a FLL in NS

I agree with Tom here, if we compare the early NS set-up with the zinker showed by Fischer I also think these were their inmediately next production.

The example I'm posting comes from an old Niemann update.

Best regards.
jordi

Attached Files

NS FLL.jpg (77.8 KB, 138 views)

**fischer** · 03-09-2010, 10:24 AM

Hi Guys

Yes, she is zinc....still searching for that elusive NS example...

My opinion of the time-line is the same as Tom's, NS and then changing to Zinc using the same dies and hardware set up.

I also have the opinion that FLL probably had some overlap making massive and hollow zinc examples at the same time.

We have the following:

Hollow NS with the small block hinge set up.
Hollow zinc with same NS hardware (cut between swazy and rifle)
Hollow zinc with same hardware (no cut between swazy and rifle)
Massive unmarked with this hardware
Massive mm with this hardware
Massive mm with crimped in hinge and catch
massive mm with crimped in hinge and "?" catch
Hollow zinc with sheet metal hinge and "?" catch
Hollow with the sheet metal hinge and crimped in catch (see silver example Tom posted)
Hollow with a sheet hinge and a type of flat stock catch

I think the timeline would look something like this because of the hardware progression of the hollow / massive / hollow examples.

Best Regards, fischer

**ardennes1944** · 03-09-2010, 12:09 PM

Hi

very nice IAB ,congratulations

Phil

**Graeme** · 03-11-2010, 07:30 PM

Hi Fischer

Very nice addition

Nice to see you listing the types for this maker, a very complex set of badges IMO.. I think you might have a couple variants missing from the list and possibly we need a little more thought to get the sequence correct. (maybe you already have it correct ?)

When you get some time, if you fancy starting a new thread about FLL types, that could be our next interesting topic...a specific thread might attract more variants from the members. And you never know the timeline might fall into place?

cheers
Graeme

**Blued** · 03-12-2010, 01:55 AM

Very nice Fischer

**fischer** · 03-15-2010, 07:05 AM

Thanks for all the comments guys...

Best Regards, fischer

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