Minty bronze A.S. PAB - fake?

[Greg]

Frank and Mike P. and all - check this out... I am suspicious of this one, though it looks very much like the silver one on Detlev's site today (yeah, who beat me to that one, cough it up!). This is in excellent shape, almost no wear. In a few small spots it looks like zinc under the finish. The finish is the "honey" bronze. 62.1mm high by 43.1mm wide, 25.4 grams.

What I don't like - the funny "depressions" on either side of the wreath on the back, showing in the "detail" image below. This badge appears to be die-struck and shows die shear marks, in other words no casting marks, but I haven't seen those depression-like areas before.

Opinions?

Thanks,
Greg

[Greg]

And the back...

None of the fittings are magnetic.

[Greg]

And the hinge...

If this is fake, this is a helluva good fake hinge.

[Greg]

And the catch...

...

[Greg]

Details of the back...

...

[Greg]

The silver one Detlev offered today

My apologies, Detlev, for borrowing this image from your site. I want to use it for comparisons!

[Mike Pinkus]

Greg
not sure what you are concerned about..."depression marks"??
i have seen several variations of these AS marked badges
It looks like a nice piece to me, and you should consider yourself fortunate to have it.
this particular badge is one of the hardest PABs to acquire in my opinion...also one of the most striking...
if you ever want to sell it, please get in contact with me!
mike

http://tankbadges.homestead.com

[Greg]

Mike,
Thanks for the kind comments! "Depressions" probably isn't the right word. I'm talking about the areas lined below where the badge metal isn't smooth or level. I haven't seen that before on a PAB.

Thanks,
Greg

[Mike Pinkus]

Greg
i see what you are talking about....the ugly spectre of casting raises its head or die failure....i am not proficient enough to make the call strictly on pics, though i know someone i will show these too and get back to you....mike K or Lorenzo, comments???
mike

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi. I'm not sure on this one. If it is fake...then we are ALL in trouble, because it looks pretty good to me. I've attached a link to my silver badge that you can compare it to.

One thing I notice is the catch. These are usually crimped-in the way that is shown on Detlev's example. On yours the crimp looks different....it seems to have a large "ridge" around it. BUT..notice on mine that the catch is soldered in...SO maybe they had a problem with these types of catches and changed the method of attachment.

Here's the link to mine.
http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/files/panzerAS.jpg

[Greg]

Lorenzo,

The catch on mine does have a ridge around it, that really looks like it wasn't crimped over as much as the catch on yours and the one on Detlev's site. The catch is just a little bit loose, like the crimp wasn't finished properly.

I won't throw it in the "fakes" box just yet, but I still can't explain the two rough areas I outlined. If this badge is cast, it doesn't show any obvious casting marks anywhere else.

Thanks,
Greg

[Gordon Larrin]

I believe the badge is a good one. I wouldn't
be concerned about the flaws in the badge.
I beleive it would be possable when the badge
would be cooling or maybe there wasn't enough
to complete the badge. It may even be possable
that some of the metal stuck to the mold. The
construction of the badge matches the IABs I
have from AS. The only thing I would be concerned
about is the makers mark. My IABs have a different
style of maker mark.
Gordy

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Greg,

I cannot see the problem with the maker´s mark. I trust the badge despite the flaw on the back and would include it in my collection.

Cheers, Frank

[Greg]

Frank,
Thanks, your comments are cheering me up some more!

Gordy,
What different style of maker's mark do your IABs have?

Regards,
Greg

[Tony Barto]

I think you've got one helluva nice, original badge. The flaws don't bother me either. If there was evidence of pock marks on the badge then I'd be very concerned but like it was stated earlier, it is very possible that part of the medal may have remained attached to the die.